Character Building Tips

WizardMen · 05-11-2001, 06:42 PM

I would like to see how you guys decide to make your character (like whats important and whats not).
All of the chacter i make seem to turn to crap agter lv 10 or so. I would just like to be able to make characters that will last.

I will be very greatful for any help on this topic.

()xxxxx{}:::::::::::::::>
WizardMen

Sazerac · 05-11-2001, 07:46 PM

It's really, really important to plan ahead for what you want. This may seem like it takes away in the beginning, but it really means for better play throughout the game.

Since you can only start with Warrior, Wizard, Priest, and Rogue, plan them out carefully. Also decide on the size of your party. Traditional party is 6 in size, which gives it more firepower, but it takes much longer to go up in levels because total XP and gold is split 6 ways.

Next: decide in advance your character's "career path." What do you hope to end up with at the ending of the game? A Zenmaster? Valkyrie? Assassin? Ninja? Samurai? Bard? Paladin? Plan accordingly. Start there, and work back. What path would give you the greatest firepower?

Also: pay attention to what you need to ascend to higher roles. Paladin, Ranger, Bard, Barbarian, and Monk can all be done in the Valeia sector. Samurai and Ninja require you to go to Shurugeon Castle, so plan those for "later" ascensions...especially since you have to go past the Mantraps. Assassins you can only get by going to the Stout Mines. Finally, Zenmaster and Valkyrie require you to be in Cet's Pyramid! Almost at endgame. Don't bank on those for long-term play unless you want to play through again with them.

Now, to start: A good mix for a 6-character party, for example, would be 2 warriors, a rogue, a priest, and 2 wizards. Don't put more than 1 rogue in a party, as they are very hard to ascend at first (you have to finish the Crypt and go to Ishad N'ha before you can do anything with them). In fact, some people argue against the rogue, as the barbarian does the same thing the rogue does with better HP, stats, and fighting ability. In such a case, you may want to eschew the rogue altogether and try 3 warriors (taking 1 to barbarian), 1 priest, and 2 wizards. If you want more magic power, do a balanced party of 2 warriors (taking one to Barbarian), 2 priests, and 2 wizards...however, this party will be difficult at first because of having so many non-fighters in it.

Decide next on when to time your ascensions. Priests and Wizards need to get their upper-level spells first, so make sure you let them get to a high enough level before you ascend them. Level 14 seems to be a "magic" level for them to make a good ascension. If you want to try it before that, the best thing is to concentrate them in the alternative magic school (Vine for priest, Stone for wizard), get their spells in that area, then ascend them to a role supporting the primary magic school (Paladin, Monk for Spirit Magic for Priests, Samurai for Sun magic for Wizards) and let them finish that out. The one exception to the rule is the Warlock ascension, which will let them learn all prior learned magic schools. plus Moon and Fiend, without penalty.

Warriors...plan to ascend them as soon as their stats allow. Wait no longer than about level 4 or 5 for them. Look to Paladin, Barbarian, and Ranger quests, as these can be done within the area around Valeia. Ignore Samurai and Ninja when you first start out, as you can't do them until you get past Ishad N'ha.

Rogues...if you use them, you'll have to wait to Ishad N'ha to ascend them. "Legally", rogues can ascend to Bard or Ninja. Bard can be done in the Serpent Temple (which you have to do anyway); Ninja requires you to travel to Shurugeon Castle and face the mantraps (which you don't want to do until you have the firepower for it). You can also "manipulate" your situation by guild-hopping; that is, accepting quests for ascensions you don't want, joining their related guilds, and then cancelling them. Just make sure you have the gold and stats for it.

On gold: there are several tricks for getting it, and it's advised that you try it at least on your first time through. The "arrow buy and sell back" trick always works, and it's legit...even in Valeia, although you'll have to do it a while. The "Inn Gold Bug" trick works too, but it's bug exploitation, so it's up to you.

Join as many guilds as you can. Train your characters in the major skills in the games, and put your skill points to work in other, non-trainable skills. Spellcasters: put spell points in Sorcery, and train your magic skills at the Guilds. Warriors: put spell points in Gallantry, and train your sword skills at the Armory. If your spellcaster is a warrior type, too, like Paladin, accord the skill points by how you want them...a fighter who can cast spells (more on Gallantry) or a spellcaster who can fight (more on Sorcery). Also remember to allocate points to Prowess for Samurai, Monk, and Ninja characters to give them a faster reaction time and more strikes per round.

On attribute points: Regardless of what else you do, make your goal getting your character's Intelligence to 16 ASAP. Every Intelligence point = 1/4 of a skill point, so you get 1 skill point for an Intelligence of 4, 2 for 8, 3 for 12, and 4 for 16. (Later, when you start using Ankhs, you can get 5 points for INT 20 and a whopping 6 points for INT 24!) Hint: Try to get your warriors to join the Wizard's Guild soon on (by guild-hopping, see Rogue above) and have them train their intelligence upward at the Guild. You don't have to use valuable attribute points on it, then, that would be better spent on DEX, AGI, and FOR scores.

If you have the gold for it, donate at the temples. Every time you donate, your prowess goes up 1 level (and you can make 1 major donation every character level). You can also get hard-to-obtain potions, such as Cure, Stone-to-Flesh, Mana Max (very useful), and Restore Health.

Hope this helps in getting started out. I'm sure there are others with more points to offer.

-Sazerac

mammawlin · 05-11-2001, 07:51 PM

Yeah, what Sazerac said! You can't get better advise than that, but one question please, how do your characters "turn to crap"??? After getting to level 10 of anything, they should be about ready to begin another role. Just wondered???

Mammawlin

Wyvern · 05-11-2001, 08:12 PM

Wowzah!

Now that's the best bit of NONspam I've seen!

.

.

.

.

.

unlike this

Wyv

Mr-Eiz · 05-11-2001, 08:24 PM

LOL

I stated the game with three Warriors a Wizards a Priest and
a thief played the game intill I messed up and killed the toads

reset game and now knowing what to do and having char 6 - 8 lv
with money the game got better

Hi Ho
Hi Ho
It's of to play we go

------------------
T H A N K S
Eiz

Wyvern · 05-11-2001, 08:29 PM

Mr-E (like Mystery - kewl!)

It is a really nice feature that you can reset the game and still use the same characters. Gives you a chance to really get them going before you get to the tough bits (like the Lilies!).

How are you doing without a Rogue though??

Wyv

Sazerac · 05-11-2001, 09:04 PM

Wyvern: ROFL to earlier about the spam!!

I think he has a rogue, from what he said...unless he deleted him/her?

-Sazerac

Wyvern · 05-11-2001, 09:11 PM

To really build character - fail! What doesn't kill us makes us stronger!

"!?

!?" What? oh - characterS er ah

To really build characters - fall!! What doesn't kill us makes us stronger!

Wyv

Wyvern · 05-11-2001, 09:14 PM

Saz - you are correct - he did have a "thief" listed in his cast of characters which somehow I managed to bleep out of my mind. You have to have a thief/rogue!!

Wyv
(looking for her marbles)

Sazerac · 05-11-2001, 09:18 PM

I agree, Wyvern, on the rogue...you have to have one for the spirit of the thing! I love rogues, and it's a mean shame that W&W was designed against them so badly, especially in the beginning when it's crucial.

Daevi was my favorite character of the "fab four"...he's the one I'm still getting the most mileage out of on the story. I just have a soft spot for thievies...

-Sazerac

Meet Violet, Red's long-lost sister!

[This message has been edited by Sazerac (edited 05-11-2001).]

05-11-2001, 09:11 PM	#8
Wyvern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Rural Paradise, MI Posts: 5,701	To really build character - fail! What doesn't kill us makes us stronger! "!?!?" What? oh - characterS er ah To really build characters - fall!! What doesn't kill us makes us stronger! Wyv

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05-11-2001, 06:42 PM	#1
WizardMen The Magister Join Date: March 6, 2001 Location: Ramona-CA-USA Posts: 121	I would like to see how you guys decide to make your character (like whats important and whats not). All of the chacter i make seem to turn to crap agter lv 10 or so. I would just like to be able to make characters that will last. I will be very greatful for any help on this topic. ()xxxxx{}:::::::::::::::> WizardMen

05-11-2001, 07:46 PM	#2
Sazerac Ironworks Moderator Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Monroe, LA Age: 60 Posts: 7,387	It's really, really important to plan ahead for what you want. This may seem like it takes away in the beginning, but it really means for better play throughout the game. Since you can only start with Warrior, Wizard, Priest, and Rogue, plan them out carefully. Also decide on the size of your party. Traditional party is 6 in size, which gives it more firepower, but it takes much longer to go up in levels because total XP and gold is split 6 ways. Next: decide in advance your character's "career path." What do you hope to end up with at the ending of the game? A Zenmaster? Valkyrie? Assassin? Ninja? Samurai? Bard? Paladin? Plan accordingly. Start there, and work back. What path would give you the greatest firepower? Also: pay attention to what you need to ascend to higher roles. Paladin, Ranger, Bard, Barbarian, and Monk can all be done in the Valeia sector. Samurai and Ninja require you to go to Shurugeon Castle, so plan those for "later" ascensions...especially since you have to go past the Mantraps. Assassins you can only get by going to the Stout Mines. Finally, Zenmaster and Valkyrie require you to be in Cet's Pyramid! Almost at endgame. Don't bank on those for long-term play unless you want to play through again with them. Now, to start: A good mix for a 6-character party, for example, would be 2 warriors, a rogue, a priest, and 2 wizards. Don't put more than 1 rogue in a party, as they are very hard to ascend at first (you have to finish the Crypt and go to Ishad N'ha before you can do anything with them). In fact, some people argue against the rogue, as the barbarian does the same thing the rogue does with better HP, stats, and fighting ability. In such a case, you may want to eschew the rogue altogether and try 3 warriors (taking 1 to barbarian), 1 priest, and 2 wizards. If you want more magic power, do a balanced party of 2 warriors (taking one to Barbarian), 2 priests, and 2 wizards...however, this party will be difficult at first because of having so many non-fighters in it. Decide next on when to time your ascensions. Priests and Wizards need to get their upper-level spells first, so make sure you let them get to a high enough level before you ascend them. Level 14 seems to be a "magic" level for them to make a good ascension. If you want to try it before that, the best thing is to concentrate them in the alternative magic school (Vine for priest, Stone for wizard), get their spells in that area, then ascend them to a role supporting the primary magic school (Paladin, Monk for Spirit Magic for Priests, Samurai for Sun magic for Wizards) and let them finish that out. The one exception to the rule is the Warlock ascension, which will let them learn all prior learned magic schools. plus Moon and Fiend, without penalty. Warriors...plan to ascend them as soon as their stats allow. Wait no longer than about level 4 or 5 for them. Look to Paladin, Barbarian, and Ranger quests, as these can be done within the area around Valeia. Ignore Samurai and Ninja when you first start out, as you can't do them until you get past Ishad N'ha. Rogues...if you use them, you'll have to wait to Ishad N'ha to ascend them. "Legally", rogues can ascend to Bard or Ninja. Bard can be done in the Serpent Temple (which you have to do anyway); Ninja requires you to travel to Shurugeon Castle and face the mantraps (which you don't want to do until you have the firepower for it). You can also "manipulate" your situation by guild-hopping; that is, accepting quests for ascensions you don't want, joining their related guilds, and then cancelling them. Just make sure you have the gold and stats for it. On gold: there are several tricks for getting it, and it's advised that you try it at least on your first time through. The "arrow buy and sell back" trick always works, and it's legit...even in Valeia, although you'll have to do it a while. The "Inn Gold Bug" trick works too, but it's bug exploitation, so it's up to you. Join as many guilds as you can. Train your characters in the major skills in the games, and put your skill points to work in other, non-trainable skills. Spellcasters: put spell points in Sorcery, and train your magic skills at the Guilds. Warriors: put spell points in Gallantry, and train your sword skills at the Armory. If your spellcaster is a warrior type, too, like Paladin, accord the skill points by how you want them...a fighter who can cast spells (more on Gallantry) or a spellcaster who can fight (more on Sorcery). Also remember to allocate points to Prowess for Samurai, Monk, and Ninja characters to give them a faster reaction time and more strikes per round. On attribute points: Regardless of what else you do, make your goal getting your character's Intelligence to 16 ASAP. Every Intelligence point = 1/4 of a skill point, so you get 1 skill point for an Intelligence of 4, 2 for 8, 3 for 12, and 4 for 16. (Later, when you start using Ankhs, you can get 5 points for INT 20 and a whopping 6 points for INT 24!) Hint: Try to get your warriors to join the Wizard's Guild soon on (by guild-hopping, see Rogue above) and have them train their intelligence upward at the Guild. You don't have to use valuable attribute points on it, then, that would be better spent on DEX, AGI, and FOR scores. If you have the gold for it, donate at the temples. Every time you donate, your prowess goes up 1 level (and you can make 1 major donation every character level). You can also get hard-to-obtain potions, such as Cure, Stone-to-Flesh, Mana Max (very useful), and Restore Health. Hope this helps in getting started out. I'm sure there are others with more points to offer. -Sazerac

05-11-2001, 07:51 PM	#3
mammawlin Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: March 3, 2001 Location: Columbus, Ohio USA Posts: 650	Yeah, what Sazerac said! You can't get better advise than that, but one question please, how do your characters "turn to crap"??? After getting to level 10 of anything, they should be about ready to begin another role. Just wondered??? Mammawlin

05-11-2001, 08:12 PM	#4
Wyvern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Rural Paradise, MI Posts: 5,701	Wowzah! Now that's the best bit of NONspam I've seen! . . . . . unlike this Wyv

05-11-2001, 08:24 PM	#5
Mr-Eiz Drow Warrior Join Date: March 14, 2001 Location: Astoria, New York USA Posts: 297	LOL I stated the game with three Warriors a Wizards a Priest and a thief played the game intill I messed up and killed the toads reset game and now knowing what to do and having char 6 - 8 lv with money the game got better Hi Ho Hi Ho It's of to play we go ------------------ T H A N K S Eiz

05-11-2001, 08:29 PM	#6
Wyvern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Rural Paradise, MI Posts: 5,701	Mr-E (like Mystery - kewl!) It is a really nice feature that you can reset the game and still use the same characters. Gives you a chance to really get them going before you get to the tough bits (like the Lilies!). How are you doing without a Rogue though?? Wyv

05-11-2001, 09:04 PM	#7
Sazerac Ironworks Moderator Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Monroe, LA Age: 60 Posts: 7,387	Wyvern: ROFL to earlier about the spam!! I think he has a rogue, from what he said...unless he deleted him/her? -Sazerac

05-11-2001, 09:14 PM	#9
Wyvern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Rural Paradise, MI Posts: 5,701	Saz - you are correct - he did have a "thief" listed in his cast of characters which somehow I managed to bleep out of my mind. You have to have a thief/rogue!! Wyv (looking for her marbles)

05-11-2001, 09:18 PM	#10
Sazerac Ironworks Moderator Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Monroe, LA Age: 60 Posts: 7,387	I agree, Wyvern, on the rogue...you have to have one for the spirit of the thing! I love rogues, and it's a mean shame that W&W was designed against them so badly, especially in the beginning when it's crucial. Daevi was my favorite character of the "fab four"...he's the one I'm still getting the most mileage out of on the story. I just have a soft spot for thievies... -Sazerac Meet Violet, Red's long-lost sister! [This message has been edited by Sazerac (edited 05-11-2001).]

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