Your thoughts on the word "niggardly"

Well maybe things are a little bit different in the North where the anti-black communities make their stance well known and the more intelligent people around them attempt to show respect.
I have an older brother who lived in Mississippi for many years driving a beer truck and he'd ask "Hey, ■■■■■■, where do you want this?" when making deliveries to black bar owners. If a society is going to make racial slurs acceptable, I can certainly see your points of view but where I was raised, my generation thinks it is both ugly and deplorable to use the "N" word or the word niggardly where a proper synonym can replace it in mixed racial company.
I know white people who use it just for the thrill of being able to say it in the company of blacks, who I call blacks btw unless I am in mixed racial company where I'll replace it with African American out of respect.
African American is the current chosen title for identifying those who wish to have their race separated from others (not to mention that every application you fill out for most anything in this country will ask you to specify your race and why? what difference does it make unless it is related to the medical field?) The blacks I know are perfectly fine with being called blacks and their parents aren't offended by the word ■■■■■■...its all generational and IMO its not a bad thing to keep up with the times in order to maintain harmony amongst peoples. You wouldn't want people calling you Mr. Whatever if you are a woman or Mrs. Whatever if you are a man would you?
All I said was that people should show enough respect to others where they use the word (to avoid offense in any confusion for its meaning or to blatantly offend in mixed racial comapny) I don't see anything wrong with that and I am not surprised to see people disagree with it.

[Azred]

Originally posted by Moni: All I said was that people should show enough respect to others where they use the word (to avoid offense in any confusion for its meaning or to blatantly offend in mixed racial comapny) I don't see anything wrong with that and I am not surprised to see people disagree with it.

Well, I can certainly agree with not offending others and showing them the respect they are due as people. My dislike of PC stems from its contradiction: if discrimination against others is to be stamped out (as it should be), then why use PC to point out--even highlight--differences? Besides, the only black people I know who have anything to do with Africa are those who have immigrated from there.

Oh, well. The more people who voice their opinion on a subject means that a better solution will be found more quickly, whether they agree or not. As long as they disagree responsibly, that is. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Azred: quote: Originally posted by Moni: All I said was that people should show enough respect to others where they use the word (to avoid offense in any confusion for its meaning or to blatantly offend in mixed racial comapny) I don't see anything wrong with that and I am not surprised to see people disagree with it.

Well, I can certainly agree with not offending others and showing them the respect they are due as people. My dislike of PC stems from its contradiction: if discrimination against others is to be stamped out (as it should be), then why use PC to point out--even highlight--differences? Besides, the only black people I know who have anything to do with Africa are those who have immigrated from there.

Oh, well. The more people who voice their opinion on a subject means that a better solution will be found more quickly, whether they agree or not. As long as they disagree responsibly, that is. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Not one of the black people you know has African ancestry?

PC itself is a touchy subject, it can go too far in some cases (i.e. the fact that "Song Of The South" isn't released in the U.S. is just stupid IMO) and not far enough in others (where does all this PC leave "white people"? esp those "white" people of mixed races?) PC discriminates against the very people it is forced on, but that is a subject for a whole new thread. Still, it doesn't stop the concept from having some value. I think Americans have changed their views of people of other races because of it (opened their minds a little) and there's nothing wrong with gaining some understanding of your fellow man, esp when he/she is your neighbor, your co-worker, your employer, your teacher, etc. etc. etc.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Moni: Well maybe things are a little bit different in the North where the anti-black communities make their stance well known and the more intelligent people around them attempt to show respect.

Uhm.....excuse me, Moni, but are you suggesting that anybody that doesn't go along with PC is unintelligent???

I have an older brother who lived in Mississippi for many years driving a beer truck and he'd ask "Hey, ■■■■■■, where do you want this?" when making deliveries to black bar owners. If a society is going to make racial slurs acceptable, I can certainly see your points of view but where I was raised, my generation thinks it is both ugly and deplorable to use the "N" word or the word niggardly where a proper synonym can replace it in mixed racial company.

A lot of black people use the "N" word themselves. Of course, that doesn't mean it's "acceptable" for white people to do it, since it has historically been a racial slur when used in that manner. I guess that's a situation where "It's Ok for ME to call my brother a jerk, but NOBODY ELSE better try it."

I know white people who use it just for the thrill of being able to say it in the company of blacks, who I call blacks btw unless I am in mixed racial company where I'll replace it with African American out of respect. African American is the current chosen title for identifying those who wish to have their race separated from others (not to mention that every application you fill out for most anything in this country will ask you to specify your race and why? what difference does it make unless it is related to the medical field?) The blacks I know are perfectly fine with being called blacks and their parents aren't offended by the word ■■■■■■...its all generational and IMO its not a bad thing to keep up with the times in order to maintain harmony amongst peoples. You wouldn't want people calling you Mr. Whatever if you are a woman or Mrs. Whatever if you are a man would you? All I said was that people should show enough respect to others where they use the word (to avoid offense in any confusion for its meaning or to blatantly offend in mixed racial comapny) I don't see anything wrong with that and I am not surprised to see people disagree with it.

I agree with "most" of your commentary here. I always try to treat everybody with respect, despite any social, racial, or theological differences we may have. In college, I lived in a boarding house with several blacks and got along with all of them very well. It was kinda funny. Towards the end of the school year, I went out to eat with them and several of their friends at a local pizza place. As we sat around the table, I suddenly started looking around the table and mentally "counting" everybody there. Michael, who lived in the house with me, said "What's wrong?" (I had a strange look on my face too, I guessk).
I looked at him and said "I just realized......I'm the ONLY white guy here."
He chuckled and said "Is that a problem?"
"No" I said "I mean I JUST NOW realized it. Earlier in the year, I would have been nervous about it from the time we left the house".

The bottom line is this.....skin color doesn't make a person who they are. Underneath the pigmentation....we are all just PEOPLE!

That's one reason I resist PC Labels. I refer to black people as black....simply because they are - but I do it in a respectful manner. I don't expect them to call me a European-American. I'm a white boy.

The one exception I make is for Native-American...because the term "Indian" is incorrect. They didn't come from India, but Columbus thought that's where he had landed originally.

Ok, that's enough of the Barbarian Rant on Political Correctness.

There may not be anything wrong with the word "niggardly", but (as Azred pointed out, MOST people don't know what it means....so it is automatically assumed to be negative by association). Therefore, I would not use the word in mixed company.....or ANY company for that matter. I had never heard of the word until the incident with the congressman a couple of years ago. I hadn't used it before then, so there is no reason to start now. Moni is correct in that there are plenty of acceptable synonyms that communicate my message just as effectively - perhaps even more so.

[skywalker]

I believe the word used today has an "a" at the end instead of an "er" and means something different. (Though I may be splitting hairs here.)

Mark

[Melusine]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: There may not be anything wrong with the word "niggardly", but (as Azred pointed out, MOST people don't know what it means....so it is automatically assumed to be negative by association). Therefore, I would not use the word in mixed company.....or ANY company for that matter. I had never heard of the word until the incident with the congressman a couple of years ago. I hadn't used it before then, so there is no reason to start now. Moni is correct in that there are plenty of acceptable synonyms that communicate my message just as effectively - perhaps even more so.

Uh sorry, but as a non-native speaker I always did know what the word meant. I really can't believe that most native speakers don't.
What I always liked so much about the English language is that it has so many synonyms, especially when it comes to nouns and adjectives. Usually there's a Germanic and a Romanic/Latinate alternative for them, and often even more than one. Of course you can use a substitute on occasion, the whole point of synonyms is that it makes your language more interesting and varied. I can tell you that when I was writing my student essays, I was sooo grateful for all the synonyms even a small thesaurus would yield. Without so many different words for "assert" "assumption" "divergent" "examine" and "interesting" my essays would sure have been monotonous
Why do away with a perfectly good word just because some people don't know what it means? It's insane, it makes the language poorer when words are written off on bases like these! And it's not as if you can't explain about the word's meaning if you happen to offend someone. Personally, I don't mind calling blacks (or whomever) whatever they prefer to be called - if it feels better to them I'll call them by the name they prefer. But that's a different matter altogether to me. Just my 2c [img]smile.gif[/img]

[/)eathKiller]

1571 O_o umm... if the word's been aroudn that long i see no problem in teaching it.. it's not like the kid's are going to grow up being told that it's similar to a degrading and racist comment. As long as their parents raise them properly and they learn that it isnt related to something bad then perhaps we could see a change, but if you're going to have an outlash of this sort... I say we just take all of the children of this generation and throw them into a big kid blender which not only kills them but mixes their remains to such a point that you cannot differinciate one from the other, and that's the only way, from what i'm seeing, that we can finally bring an end to this whole "racism" issue and finally let the human race be equal...

Now if someone has a better idea than a giant "Generation Blender" please do speak up...

[Attalus]

Good post, Melusine. Let's take the example that I gave, from LOTR: "You are no niggard, Eomer...(etc.)"[/i] If you edit it to, "You are no miser," or "no skinflint," etc., you completely lose the alliteration, which is one reason that I remember this line so vividly. We should not surrender the language to some soreheads' pettiness.

[Sazerac]

The word probably works better in a literary sense than in common spoken conversation. Written and oral communication are so vastly different that they deserve entirely separate schools of thought and study.

-Sazerac

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: Uhm.....excuse me, Moni, but are you suggesting that anybody that doesn't go along with PC is unintelligent???

Excuse me? Where, or better yet, how did you pull that out of what I said? I would never suggest anything...if that is what I had meant, you can be damn sure that is what I would have said.

A lot of black people use the "N" word themselves. Of course, that doesn't mean it's "acceptable" for white people to do it, since it has historically been a racial slur when used in that manner. I guess that's a situation where "It's Ok for ME to call my brother a jerk, but NOBODY ELSE better try it."

You know as well as i do that when the "N" word comes out of a white person's mouth and is directed at a black person, chances are in favor of it not being meant in a friendly way. Not to say that black and white friends can't use that term (and "cracker") between themselves, I am aware that it happens, but you know what I mean. Calling anyone a JERK doesn't compare.

I agree with "most" of your commentary here. I always try to treat everybody with respect, despite any social, racial, or theological differences we may have. In college, I lived in a boarding house with several blacks and got along with all of them very well. It was kinda funny. Towards the end of the school year, I went out to eat with them and several of their friends at a local pizza place. As we sat around the table, I suddenly started looking around the table and mentally "counting" everybody there. Michael, who lived in the house with me, said "What's wrong?" (I had a strange look on my face too, I guessk). I looked at him and said "I just realized......I'm the ONLY white guy here." He chuckled and said "Is that a problem?" "No" I said "I mean I JUST NOW realized it. Earlier in the year, I would have been nervous about it from the time we left the house". The bottom line is this.....skin color doesn't make a person who they are. Underneath the pigmentation....we are all just PEOPLE! That's one reason I resist PC Labels. I refer to black people as black....simply because they are - but I do it in a respectful manner. I don't expect them to call me a European-American. I'm a white boy. The one exception I make is for Native-American...because the term "Indian" is incorrect. They didn't come from India, but Columbus thought that's where he had landed originally. Ok, that's enough of the Barbarian Rant on Political Correctness. There may not be anything wrong with the word "niggardly", but (as Azred pointed out, MOST people don't know what it means....so it is automatically assumed to be negative by association). Therefore, I would not use the word in mixed company.....or ANY company for that matter. I had never heard of the word until the incident with the congressman a couple of years ago. I hadn't used it before then, so there is no reason to start now. Moni is correct in that there are plenty of acceptable synonyms that communicate my message just as effectively - perhaps even more so.

Which is going along with some form of PC, is it not?

What makes people think that "Native Americans" are comfortable with that term as opposed to "Indian" anyway? We may be native to this country but my Apache ancestors certainly didn't call it America! Native American is more of a label than Indian is. At least when they learned the white man's term for the tribal people's, Indian is what they understood it to be.

[ 09-05-2002, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: Moni ]