Gay/Lesbian/Homosexual pride parades

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by Dave_the_quack You're welcome to your opinion Cerek, but I have to disagree on your thoughts that sexuality is a learned behaviour. I certainly don't choose my sexuality, but I do choose not to let others dictate how I should live my life by what is inherently right or wrong in their eyes. I also disagree when you say that sexual desires and impulses can be controlled by adults - unless by the term 'control' you mean whether or not you act on them. Having said that, I'm still not sure where you're trying to go with this comment. Is is that homosexuals choose to be gay and don't have to be because there is another option? Seeing as how I have absolutely no attraction to females in the slightest that option for me could only be celibacy, and to me that just simply isn't an option. I think most people would agree you cannot control those of whom you have a sexual and emotional attraction towards. One doesn't choose to fall in love, it just happens. If it's forced it's not love.

Depends on what he means by learned behavior really. Most of it I think, in this straight/gay orientation argument is the result of conditioning. We get to work conditioning ourselves in the years leading up to puberty. If everyone was gay as we grow up, and it was accepted as the norm, chances are we would be too. And we would miraculously be as attracted to the same sex as we are to the opposite right now.

[Skippy1]

Originally Posted by Bungleau .. I have several friends who have adopted children, and I think the starting point is around US$10,000...

WHAT!!! They can have mine for free.....hell!! I'd even pay them to take them away! Their both costing me a fortune at the moment.

[Skippy1]

Declare an "open season" on them??

Then they would all crawl back in their closets where they belong!

Problem solved.

[Cerek]

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior Depends on what he means by learned behavior really. Most of it I think, in this straight/gay orientation argument is the result of conditioning. We get to work conditioning ourselves in the years leading up to puberty. If everyone was gay as we grow up, and it was accepted as the norm, chances are we would be too. And we would miraculously be as attracted to the same sex as we are to the opposite right now.

Precisely. Perhaps "learned" is not the proper term. Rather, I should say "conditioned". I believe a lot of our behavior is "learned" through experiences in our earliest childhood. Environment, social conditions and other factors all combine to shape our personalities and help determine what we desire and don't desire. Much of this "learning" occurs at an age too young for us to remember it happening, but the influence remains with us nonetheless.

I saw a study on a girl who was convinced she had lived a former life. She knew exact details about a little village in Scotland (including several residents), yet she had never been there before. So she became convinced she must have lived in this village during a previous life. Turns out, her grandmother was the one who had lived in the village and used to tell stories of the "old land" while she rocked the girl to sleep as a baby. The girl was far too young to consciously remember the stories, but she had heard them and learned them nonetheless.

I understand your viewpoint, Dave. It would be just as impossible for me to imagine being attracted to a man. But again, I think that is more a product of my environment and raising rather than any genetic predisposition.

BTW, Good to see you're still around.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

The problem with calling homosexuality a learned behavior is this- where does it come from? TV? No. The media? No. Schools? Certainly not. Unless there's a gay uncle in the mix, I'm not sure we can say learned and not innate.

[Firestormalpha]

My curiousity was essentially in what way they differ from each other. If a fetish is something that arouses someone, but is not generally accepted as the norm. How does it differ from homosexuality. I'm not saying it doesn't, but I'm not aware of how it is. If I'm mistaken by all means enlighten me.

[vesselle]

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior People parading around naked and tons of promiscuity etc. is I think what is meant.

OMG! i adore naked men :p somebody please direct me to one of these naked men parades.

all the gay/lesbian pride parades i've been to (NYC, DC, HI, CA, AZ, FLA) never had any naked men or women. i feel gypped.

V***V

[Firestormalpha]

That's what is called selective reading, vesselle.

Spirit Warrior was trying to explain what he thought Yorick meant in one of his previous comments.

[Cerek]

Originally Posted by Illumina Drathiran'ar The problem with calling homosexuality a learned behavior is this- where does it come from? TV? No. The media? No. Schools? Certainly not. Unless there's a gay uncle in the mix, I'm not sure we can say learned and not innate.

I tried to explain what I meant more clearly in my response to Dave. I was stating that our behavior is influenced/shaped/patterned by ALL of the things we encounter in our childhood. Scientists have even suggested we "learn" 90% of what we know by the age of 5. That doesn't mean the educational lessons learned in school, that means learning how to walk, talk, eat, and all other behaviour essential for survival and social adaptation. It sounded skewed to me at first as well, until I stopped to think just how much we have to "learn" from birth.

I went on to explain that "learned" probably isn't the most appropriate term to use, but I can't think of a better term. Nowhere did I suggest we learn our behavior from watching TV or being exposed to it in the media (although those also are factors in what we learn). The example of the gay uncle is closer to what I was describing, but it goes deeper than that. HOW your family members feel about an issue WILL influence how you feel about it as well. And this influence begins at the infant stage. That is as clearly as I can state my viewpoint. If you disagree, that is your choice.

[Dave_the_quack]

Originally Posted by Cerek I tried to explain what I meant more clearly in my response to Dave. I was stating that our behavior is influenced/shaped/patterned by ALL of the things we encounter in our childhood. Scientists have even suggested we "learn" 90% of what we know by the age of 5. That doesn't mean the educational lessons learned in school, that means learning how to walk, talk, eat, and all other behaviour essential for survival and social adaptation. It sounded skewed to me at first as well, until I stopped to think just how much we have to "learn" from birth. I went on to explain that "learned" probably isn't the most appropriate term to use, but I can't think of a better term. Nowhere did I suggest we learn our behavior from watching TV or being exposed to it in the media (although those also are factors in what we learn). The example of the gay uncle is closer to what I was describing, but it goes deeper than that. HOW your family members feel about an issue WILL influence how you feel about it as well. And this influence begins at the infant stage. That is as clearly as I can state my viewpoint. If you disagree, that is your choice.

I understand what you're trying to say. I just wish we could further the conversation with examples of how my upbringing or environment is different to those of heterosexuals so we could prove/refute your viewpoint. Problem is, we really can't. If it is true, who knows what incident/s or environmental factors were the foundation for my physiological and psychological needs? Or yours? I can honestly say that I'm the first known homosexual in my immediate (and even extended) family so that isn't a cause. Regardless, it's hard for me to argue this point for or against because until there is substantial testing done on the area (and something I can apply to myself) there is no reason that I'm gay. I'm gay just coz.

BTW, Good to see you're still around.

Thanks I'm always around.. just usually lurking in the shadows.