Minsc: Dual-wield or two-handed?

[Artemis]

I wrestle with how to use Minsc. He's a bruiser with a two-handed sword, and I like having a bow handy when he's using the two-hander, but I debate whether he's more effective dual-wielding with some of the other cooler one-handed weapons like Flail of Ages. Unfortunately dual-wielding prevents him from using his bow, so I don't like losing that ranged attack, particularly as he's so skilled with it. The compromise I've been working on is bow & two-handed sword most of the time, but switching to dual-wielding when we're in adventuring through close quarters. As a result I don't know whether to put additional proficiency slots in his two-handed weapons skill or in flail/mace/or any other one-handed weapon slot (where he has none now). What are other people's opinions? Thanks for the help...

[This message has been edited by Artemis (edited 03-09-2001).]

[Melusine]

It depends what kind of other chars you have in your party. At the moment, I use Mazzy for the 2hsword/bow combo so that Minsc can dualwield, but you really do need someone for 2h swords. Maybe as a compromise you can put proficiencies in long sword and mace/flail and have him dual Flail of Ages with a cool Longsword like the Daystar? My boyfriend has him swapping all the time too (between 2 maces and 2h sword)

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Melusine

Your voice is ambrosia

[Lanfear]

I'm using the flail of Ages/Daystar combo right now -- it works well.

[Jerome]

i used minsc for 2handed weilding and valygar for dual. And me with the holy avenger (till my rep dropped to 1 )

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[insert witty phrase here]

[Black Knight]

Originally posted by Jerome: i used minsc for 2handed weilding and valygar for dual. And me with the holy avenger (till my rep dropped to 1 )

Ah, my favorite fallen paladin.

Me personally, I like Minsc with a certain two-handed sword from the sewers. No spoiler here, but if you want, we could . . .

BK

[Accord]

Dual wield!! Dual wield Minsc with Mace of Disruption, Stone Fire, Frost Reaver, and Skullcrusher (chose the appropriate combination depending on situation, for example, equip with with Mace of Disruption if facing Undeads). He becomes a killer machine. Rangers naturally start off with 2 stars in two-weapon style, might as well use it.
Let the thief/mage in the party fire the arrows.

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Long live H22A1!!!!!

[Kargon]

Definitly dualweild.Give him Flail of ages and the fire sword and hes unstopable in the early parts.if in the higher levels use an advanced version of the 2 weapons.

[Ramon de Ramon y Ramon]

Minor Spoilers !
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Hi there !

The answer is ... neither !

Well, of course, it depends on your party's make-up and your playing style as the wise Melusine and others have pointed out before me.

In my party (fighter/mage pc, Minsc, Aerie, Jaheira, Imoen/Jan, Keldorn/or various) Minsc obviously fills the role of the main tank. Especially at higher levels, when everybody else has got lots of cool spells to cast, he is often the only one upfront, taking all the heat in melee. With a constellation like that it is most important that Minsc can stay there as long as possible, so that the others won't be disrupted while spellcasting or, almost worse, have to disrupt it themselves, because they have to bail out Minsc when he gets into trouble. So, with him the emphasis shifts from offense to defence.

Now take into account that the shields in this game are just awesome. We are talking about a difference of at least 5 ac points here, and that translates into a lot of hits that could be avoided. On top of that, on the defensive end (dex ac bonus, hps) Minsc is rather average by the lofty standards set by the NPCs in this game. IMNSHO he is therefore not ideally suited for either two-handed or dual-wielding fighting, even considering that as a ranger he already comes with two proficiency slots in dual-wielding. I think shieldless fighting is best left to fighter/mages as with them, because of their protective spells like stoneskins, mirror image, etc. the ac does not matter that much, or to a character who is only a second or third option in melee-fighting. So disregard all of the above, if in your party Minsc happens to be the fifth best fighter only.

I also think that dual-wielding is very overrated, probably because of its "macho" appeal. It has two major advantages: the extra attack per round and that two wielded/equipped weapons can give the benefits of two special abilities/boni of magical weapons. Especially at higher levels, I don't think that the advantage of 3.5 attacks over 2.5 attacks per round outweighs the drawbacks compared to fighting with a shield (some have nice extra equipped abilities, too, btw) or two-handed fighting. Two-handed fighting allows you to have equipped one of the great bows or crossbows (equipped with the bracelets of dexterity Keldorn is a killer with the crossbow) and one of the even better two-handed swords at the same time, which grants flexibility. Two proficiency points put into two-handed fighting give you a doubled chance for a critical hit, an extra point of damage and a plus 4 weapon speed bonus. Against tough opposition that is probably hard to hit, IMO the doubled chance of a critical hit is much more important than the extra attack, because an attack can miss, but once you hit with the two-handed weapon you are now double as likely to do doubled damage. Therefore, against tough opposition, ergo when it matters most, you might well have a faster kill with a two-handed sword, which are also the weapons that inflict the most damage per hit, than with two weapons wielded simultaneously.

On top of that: in the case of Minsc, incidentally, one of the best two-handed swords in the game also covers very nicely for one of his major liabilities, if you know what I mean.

I, finally, rest my case.



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So long !


R³ - Co-president(s) of the Club of Broken Hearts

[el_kalkylus]

The advantage of dualwielding is that you can have one more attack and use two weapons special abilities, that has been said already. For example, you can dualwield flail of ages to slow the enemy, and mace of disruption to kill undead (great combination). When you get more powerful weapons, you definately want to let him use his skills in two handed sword. The disadvantage with dualwielding is that you get THACO penalty -4 to your offhand (2 proficiency points, otherwise -2 if you have 3 slots).

Since Minsc get ++two handed sword, ++mace, ++long bow, ++two weapon style already from the beginning, and will probably only get 3-4 more proficiency points, you need to make a choice. You can't have them both. I think you should get one point in flail, and two points in two handed style, since he already has points in two handed sword and long bow. There are some really good two handed swords out there, and since you like to use long bow, this is a good choice.

About the shields (Ramon): Just because you dualwield or use two handed sword doesn't mean you can't use shields for protection against a little more difficult monsters. I switch all the time with my characters depending on the situation.

[Artemis]

Now take into account that the shields in this game are just awesome. We are talking about a difference of at least 5 ac points here, and that translates into a lot of hits that could be avoided. On top of that, on the defensive end (dex ac bonus, hps) Minsc is rather average by the lofty standards set by the NPCs in this game. IMNSHO he is therefore not ideally suited for either two-handed or dual-wielding fighting, even considering that as a ranger he already comes with two proficiency slots in dual-wielding. I think shieldless fighting is best left to fighter/mages as with them, because of their protective spells like stoneskins, mirror image, etc. the ac does not matter that much, or to a character who is only a second or third option in melee-fighting. So disregard all of the above, if in your party Minsc happens to be the fifth best fighter only. I also think that dual-wielding is very overrated, probably because of its "macho" appeal. It has two major advantages: the extra attack per round and that two wielded/equipped weapons can give the benefits of two special abilities/boni of magical weapons. Especially at higher levels, I don't think that the advantage of 3.5 attacks over 2.5 attacks per round outweighs the drawbacks compared to fighting with a shield (some have nice extra equipped abilities, too, btw) or two-handed fighting. Two-handed fighting allows you to have equipped one of the great bows or crossbows (equipped with the bracelets of dexterity Keldorn is a killer with the crossbow) and one of the even better two-handed swords at the same time, which grants flexibility. Two proficiency points put into two-handed fighting give you a doubled chance for a critical hit, an extra point of damage and a plus 4 weapon speed bonus. Against tough opposition that is probably hard to hit, IMO the doubled chance of a critical hit is much more important than the extra attack, because an attack can miss, but once you hit with the two-handed weapon you are now double as likely to do doubled damage. Therefore, against tough opposition, ergo when it matters most, you might well have a faster kill with a two-handed sword, which are also the weapons that inflict the most damage per hit, than with two weapons wielded simultaneously. [/B]

Great analysis, thanks for taking the time. Thanks also el_kalkylus for adding your thoughts, they're helpful as I think about how to allocate prociency points. This is exactly why this game is so great, there is rarely a clear cut universal 'best' call, it depends on the composition of the band and the circumstances of the encounter!

[This message has been edited by Artemis (edited 03-09-2001).]