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Old 09-05-2001, 05:09 AM   #21
Donut
Jack Burton
 

Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Airstrip One
Age: 39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfere:
Golly gee whiz...another yank bashing thread...how novel.


I would point out that this thread was started by Absynthe
from the wonderfully named town of Snohomish in Washington State.

There is a difference between criticising the actions of your Government and criticising Americans.

It is reported in The Times today that the Pentagon has secretly built a germ factory which is producing a more potent form of anthrax using genetically engineered biological agents. This is in contravention of the 1972 convention on biological weapons which prohibits nations from developing or acquiring weapons which spread disease.

This is just another example of the isolationist policies of the Bush administration which are portraying the United States in a poor light in the eyes of the rest of the world and, more importantly, amongst their allies.


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Old 09-05-2001, 08:17 AM   #22
Wulfere
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Join Date: March 20, 2001
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska USA
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Posts: 893
Quote:
Originally posted by Absynthe:
To continue a discussion from another thread, just what impression is the United States making on the world right now?
I don't see any bashing there do you. I see a question, it was later that name calling started and that's what I am refering too.

I served in the US Air Force. It is common policy for both sides to cross lines and play the "Game". It was in fact the Chinese fighter that struck the prop driven american plane. Or do you think a prop driven aircraft can catch a Jet fighter?
As far as the us crossing the boundries of treaties...name a country that hasn't ever broken a treaty.
In the USA we are all nationalities and all colors. We are also one of the two remaining "Super Powers" (I always hated that name). As a nation we will do what we need to in order to survive. I personally don't see what problem a missle defense system would be. Or do you think Iran, Iraq and a dozen others will be content with the systems they have and never develop ICBM's? They have also shown a willingness to use indescriminate weapons of terror and mass destruction. Bush has said he would share the system with other nations.
But then again perhaps you would rather see the US turned into a smoking hole.
I do not get into these kinds of discussions usually. They leave a bad taste in my mouth. It also seems that no matter what we all lose in them. I look petty for defending a country I love. I am proud to be a US citizen and proud that I sevred. I did vote for Bush. He was the best choice as far as I was concerned.
The last thing we needed was Slick Willies Buddy.

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Old 09-05-2001, 08:25 AM   #23
AngelofDeath
Drizzt Do'Urden
 

Join Date: June 11, 2001
Location: Wherever the road takes me.....
Age: 53
Posts: 609
Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfere:
I don't see any bashing there do you. I see a question, it was later that name calling started and that's what I am refering too.

I served in the US Air Force. It is common policy for both sides to cross lines and play the "Game". It was in fact the Chinese fighter that struck the prop driven american plane. Or do you think a prop driven aircraft can catch a Jet fighter?
As far as the us crossing the boundries of treaties...name a country that hasn't ever broken a treaty.
In the USA we are all nationalities and all colors. We are also one of the two remaining "Super Powers" (I always hated that name). As a nation we will do what we need to in order to survive. I personally don't see what problem a missle defense system would be. Or do you think Iran, Iraq and a dozen others will be content with the systems they have and never develop ICBM's? They have also shown a willingness to use indescriminate weapons of terror and mass destruction. Bush has said he would share the system with other nations.
But then again perhaps you would rather see the US turned into a smoking hole.
I do not get into these kinds of discussions usually. They leave a bad taste in my mouth. It also seems that no matter what we all lose in them. I look petty for defending a country I love. I am proud to be a US citizen and proud that I sevred. I did vote for Bush. He was the best choice as far as I was concerned.
The last thing we needed was Slick Willies Buddy.

Amen to that!!!!



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Old 09-05-2001, 08:37 AM   #24
Fljotsdale
Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom
 

Join Date: March 12, 2001
Location: Birmingham, West Mid\'s, England
Age: 87
Posts: 2,859
I really couldn't express my opinion in a public forum. I would be instantly banned.
Nothing wrong with Americans. Just the government/corporations.
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[This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited 09-05-2001).]
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Old 09-05-2001, 08:49 AM   #25
skywalker
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Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: VT, USA
Age: 63
Posts: 3,097
Please, everyone! America is filled with good people and some bad. Less than 50% of us elected the current President and the rest of us aren't really that happy with our current direction. I agre with a lot posted here, but try not to bash us just because we have poor management.

I struggle every day with what is going on and hope for better times in 2004.

Thanx for "all" your views, I just wish that my government was here to read them.

Mark
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Old 09-05-2001, 10:07 AM   #26
Absynthe
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Thanks to everyone who's responded to this. I was hoping to get feedback from other countries to broaden my perspective some. It's very easy, living in the U.S., to ignore the world around us and the tremendous influence we have on other nations. Much of the focus in our news is on internal affairs and for the most part foreign policy/news is second page stuff.
Because I live and participate in a democracy, I find it critical to educate myself on the effects of my decisions, especially the representation we have as a nation on the world stage. We Americans are in a unique position to directly affect our government, and for any of us to shy away from feedback is, in my opinion, shirking our responsibility to participate in our government.
To that end, I asked for feedback, be it good, bad, or indifferent. I don't regard what I've read here as "American bashing", and I do appreciate that people are being honest about their opinions. Whether or not I agree with what anyone had to say is irrelevant; I appreciate the chance to get a different perspective on things.
Anyway, thanks to everyone who posted, I hope no-one got bent about the comments made here.
 
Old 09-05-2001, 10:14 AM   #27
MILAMBER
Lord Soth
 

Join Date: March 5, 2001
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,948
Quote:
Originally posted by Rikard:
Well i would say
Inflexible, Conservitive, closed
The Democrats are the most socialist party the US has and they are about as Socialist as our most right-winged Big Party
Also the way election goes in the US is outdated and from a period where the rioch felt that they should have the right to overrule the peoples vote

About Bush I'm even more negative
First of all there was the accident with the Chinese Airplain which he did not want to apologise for
Second the breakin of the Kyoto treaty which is terrible
Third the Anti-Missle defence

I'm to say it mildly
Not possitive about US politics



I almost spit my coffee out when I read this. Where are you getting your info from my friend? The way we vote is outdated? First you say our Democrats are like socialists (which sounds like you think socialism is a good thing), then you say we have an outdated method of voting? I didn't know that socialists had an opportunity to vote. I'm sure they would have loved to know they could vote about 10 years ago in russia. Moving on from that, why is our method of voting outdated? It is relatively current I assure you. They are even talking about secure internet voting next election. I am guessing you might be referring to the electoral college, but in the history of our country, the electoral college has never varied it's vote from that of the populace.

Finally why the fu*k should we apologize to china about the spy plane thing? Are you watching Iraqi news or something instead of cnn? The collision happened in international air after a hotshot chinese mig pilot flew too close to the american craft and accidentally hit it. The fault was with the chinese for hitting an american plane flying over international waters. They should reimburse us or apologise to us not vice versa.

Someone mentioned earlier how they think that Americans are not well informed about world affairs. To be honest with you, speaking for myself, that's kinda true. I honestly don't have time to watch the news every day (I hate tv), and the only things I find out about the world politics are via the internet (cnn, & msnbc), and what I find out at these sites are usually found when I go there looking for something eles and I get intrigued by something and follow it down. Our country is so big that it's easy to get sucked into what's happening here and forget about everything else. Thats the honest truth. It's not that we don't care, but I think a lot of people think we should fix some of the problems we have here before we try to start focusing externally. All of you in Europe and other Eastern countries are a lot closer to each other then we are over here, so it's easier for you to keep the "global community" mindset.

That thing about not knowing Asian countries I find really hard to believe. Where did you find that? All these kids would have to do is look at the back of their watch and backpack. One's probably China, the other's Korea.

In general, I think that this thread has voiced some well spoken opinions and that nobody has slammed our country so far. I'm impressed, and lets try and keep it that way.

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"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
-General George Patton (1885-1945)

Member of CLAN HADB

[This message has been edited by MILAMBER (edited 09-05-2001).]
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Old 09-05-2001, 10:37 AM   #28
Rikard
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Milamber
You say that to get an objective view on a US-China Matter should be found at the American Commercial TV-Channel CNN?????
I don't think so...
I got my information from a Neutral Non-Commercial Newschannel (though the are a bit too US-minded in my opinion) in the Netherlands

Further more
You are mad because I think the Democrats are socialist
What is wrong with socialism?
What is wrong with think that you shouldn't let people die of hunger when they cannot get job?
Are you aware that the US has about the lowest Tax rates in the western world and that also in the US the difference between the poor and rich is the biggest in the western world?

I'm a Socialist By Heart and I'm proud of it

There's nothing wrong with socialism as long as it's not turned to Communism

And sorry to say it but i rather have a communist country then a fasist country

About the election system
It's the system that bugges me not the method
The fact that the populair vote does not deside the president
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[This message has been edited by Rikard (edited 09-05-2001).]
 
Old 09-05-2001, 10:42 AM   #29
skywalker
Banned User
 

Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: VT, USA
Age: 63
Posts: 3,097
MILAMBER

After the Florida Election debacle, you can honestly say we have a great voting system? There were so many screw-ups and there was so much tampering there, I can't see how anyone outside (or inside, for that matter)the USA could possibly think our voting systems aren't a little whacked!

And...kids in school over the last few decades have been lax in geography and it has been reported often in the news. I don't have a source to back me up, but I remember a story that many students could not place the United States on a world map.
(As I said I don't have info to back myself up, so don't ask...this is a Forum not a newspaper...Even so I refuse to divulge my sources )

Mark
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Old 09-05-2001, 11:16 AM   #30
MagiK
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About the Kyoto accord and the USA not going along with it. First and foremost, Global warming as a result of HUMAN interference has not even been close to being an established fact. Any competent meteorologist will tell you that no one really knows what effect man has on the global weather. Also it should be pointed out that a single volcanic eruption puts more "greenhouse gasses" into the atmosphere than all of mankind combined. Man has only been measuring actual temmperatures and weather patterns for a very very short time. Geologicaly speaking we are supposedly between Ice Ages and we have no idea what happens to set into motion an Ice Age. All the kyoto accord does is medel further with processes that man doesnt understand and allow third world contries to produce all the polution and smog they want while hamstringing the US. The USA is also NOT the leading producer of environmental pollution introduced into the environment. The ever stricter environmental laws in the USA are far more effective than those applied world wide. Russia, China and most of the so called "third world" countries put more pollution into the system simply because they have few if any regulations to start with. The kyoto accord is just a con job by the eco-terrorists who want to alarm the general populace and is backed only by theory, guesses and unscientific feeling.
Base your arguments in cold hard fact. If you have to "fudge" the numbers to make your point, then your point isn't worth making. Should the USA continue to look for ways to get cleaner industry? Sure, should we gut our economy to do it? No! People say that the automobile is a vile evil polution generator, well think about this...what do you think would happen if we replaced all the cars with horses??? We would all be up to our ears in horsh sh*t thats what would happen. How do I know what is going on in other countries (since I obviously live in the USA)? thats easy to answer...been there thats how. I spent more than 10 years globe trotting, and I have to tell you aside from switzerland, the USA is the cleanest place Ive been. Yeah if you only look at the cities which in some cases are larger than some countries some of them are kind of dirty but the USA is a country that is the size of a continent and what you see in New York City or LA is not even close to being representative of what the country is like as a whole.

Well thats the opinion of an educated, traveled, veteran that doesnt just accept newspaper headlines as fact.
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[This message has been edited by MagiK (edited 09-05-2001).]
 
 


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