Wolves as Endangered Species - Page 5

pritchke · 10-18-2002, 08:35 PM

It is amazing of the peoples lack of knowledge about wolves. You are more likely to be attacked by mans best friend or lightning than a wolf, and wolf attacks on man are so rare that I would rather say that it is more something out of a hollywood movie. Have you people been watching to many Howling movies. Please provide links to actual newspaper articles of wolves attacking people in the last 100 years I am quite sure that it would be difficult and you would find tons more on dog attacks, shark attacks, and coyote attacks on babies. Also it is usually a pack of wild dogs or a pack of coyotes that give wolves a bad name. If I met a pack of wolves in the woods I would do absolutly nothing but stand still and watch until they left. If you panic and run you may actually frighten them and give them a reason to attack, most animals will run from you including bears most of the time. But bears can be a little unpredictable, as for the tiger being mans only natural enemy on land I would stick the polar bear in there as well, as they are very agressive bears, more so than the other types. But even they don't make a habit of seaking out human settlements and hunting down humans.

Neb · 10-18-2002, 08:39 PM

In extension of Pritchke's post: Perhaps the wolves attacking the Siberian villages are Dog/Wolf hybrids? They are by far the the most vicious dog-like creatures in existence to the best of my memory. And they would bear enough of a resemblance to a wolf, I believe, that anyone being attacked by them would be fooled since he/she couldn't really double-check.

And since there are packs of wild dogs, perhaps the original settlers of the New World had the same problem? Or perhaps we're just getting distorted reports from back then since it IS a while ago and even now people are driven to exaggeration. After seeing some of those slightly dangerous-looking critters, the wolves, the settlers might have cooked up a story about being attacked by them.

Djinn Raffo · 10-18-2002, 08:42 PM

It 1998 I was in northern Alberta treeplanting. Me and my planting partner were getting close to the treeline when we looked up and saw at least six wolves pacing around just inside the forest cover. They knew we were there. We turned around and walked away from them and went about our business. We shut her down for the day deciding we would rather smoke butts at the heli landing area (this was a fly-in camp) and didnt want to keep working near them just to stay on the safe side of caution. We could still check em out from where we were and we stayed on the cutblock for the rest of the day smoking (was only an hour or two left before heli came). Pretty wicked encounter actually. I've also had many many days where we encountered bears. Whenever we saw them...we kept working...unless it had cubs.

imo most animal attacks on humans are because of the stupidity of humans ("awwww.. they so cute lets feed em.")

10-18-2002, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Neb:

quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
[there are whole villages that have been wiped out in siberia when wolf packs attacked during particularly bad winters. Imnot saying hunt them to extinction, but I also don't like people making them sound as peacful and harmless as bunnies either.

I never said they were peaceful bunnies [img]tongue.gif[/img] But see what you said? "Bad winters" humans can be every bit as vicious as wolves when starving, and as peaceful as bunnies when they've got a full belly [img]tongue.gif[/img] And why are the wolves starving? Because we wrecked their habitats! Guess we're only getting what's coming to us, then.

And I'm rather annoyed that you specified that "happy and nice" stuff as specified for Wicca groups. I happen to be a semi-Wiccan myself. Though I mainly follow the philosophy, and not the beliefs.[/QUOTE]Well I can't help who the stuff I was talking about was ment for.

I didn't say anything bad about the local Wicca and Crystla groups, there is a store on Main Street here to cater to both needs, this is where I read some of the most utter BS articles on animals and woods. Clearly written by someone who had never set foot in a real forest. Im sure you use more realistic information for your teachings.

Maybe if I can get some time Ill go get some quotes from the books Im talking about this weekend. But in any case if you feel like wandering in the woods unarmed when wolves are on the prowl [img]smile.gif[/img] I suggest you sleep in a tree [img]smile.gif[/img]

10-18-2002, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo:
It 1998 I was in northern Alberta treeplanting. Me and my planting partner were getting close to the treeline when we looked up and saw at least six wolves pacing around just inside the forest cover. They knew we were there. We turned around and walked away from them and went about our business. We shut her down for the day deciding we would rather smoke butts at the heli landing area (this was a fly-in camp) and didnt want to keep working near them just to stay on the safe side of caution. We could still check em out from where we were and we stayed on the cutblock for the rest of the day smoking (was only an hour or two left before heli came). Pretty wicked encounter actually. I've also had many many days where we encountered bears. Whenever we saw them...we kept working...unless it had cubs.

imo most animal attacks on humans are because of the stupidity of humans ("awwww.. they so cute lets feed em.")

I can't disagree with you there. And I will say this too, no animal is "evil" good and evil are terms that apply to humans alone.

I think you did the sensible thing myself. I was shocked at just how big those puppies are. TV shows make them look like dogs, but up close Wolves can get darn big.

10-18-2002, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Neb:
In extension of Pritchke's post: Perhaps the wolves attacking the Siberian villages are Dog/Wolf hybrids? They are by far the the most vicious dog-like creatures in existence to the best of my memory. And they would bear enough of a resemblance to a wolf, I believe, that anyone being attacked by them would be fooled since he/she couldn't really double-check.

And since there are packs of wild dogs, perhaps the original settlers of the New World had the same problem? Or perhaps we're just getting distorted reports from back then since it IS a while ago and even now people are driven to exaggeration. After seeing some of those slightly dangerous-looking critters, the wolves, the settlers might have cooked up a story about being attacked by them.

I don't think so, from the story they were the size of small ponies and there aren't a lot of dogs in that region of the world to start with, nor many pets for that matter, life is hard enough for them to support themselves let alone pets. Altho they are now pretty well armed. I read somewhere that in the 90's the Soviet Army gave a bunch of bolt action rifles to several communites with lots of ammo.

Spelca · 10-18-2002, 08:52 PM

Ohwell, I guess I'll try posting... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Wolves have been endangered in Slovenia for a long time. Their numbers were very low, and we were trying very hard to bring them up. We finally did it, when the farmers who settled in their territory in the meantime (and some before) decided that the wolves kill too many of their sheep and that because of that 6 of them should be killed. They actually managed to kill 2 of them, but the people and environmentalists were so upset because of the whole thing that they were forbidden to kill more. These were farmers that had their farms where they knew there were wolves. They didn't have any fences around their land. They didn't try in any other way to protect themselves against wolves. And this is what bothers me sometimes... People just try to find the easiest way out. The wolves are killing the herds? Oh yea, lets kill them all. Why would we try to figure out why they're killing the herds. Or why would we try building some fences, or maybe try relocating the wolves. It's easier to just kill them.

Now I know sometimes there is no other choice but to kill a wolf, like self-defence. But to kill an endangered animal because it's eating your sheep, and not because it's endangering you personally or because it's terminally ill, or even before trying to do something else, is just wrong. This animal is endangered in a lot of places and by killing one animal you are endangering the survival of the whole species.

It makes me angry that some people are trying to make wolves seem evil. They are not evil. They're wolves. Wolves hunt and eat meat. They attack when they feel threatened. And they might attack when their territory all of a sudden changes... But they do not kill just for the sake of killing. We, humans, do that. If anybody's evil, then we are.

We have to take responsibility for what we did. We destroyed so many species already, and invaded and destroyed their habitats. Some even before we really got to know them. Some of these species might have been able to help us cure some diseases. And even if the specie doesn't seem to be useful much, it's still important.
I've always imagined Nature to be like one of those 3D puzzles... You push one piece out, and it might still stand. You push out enough of them, and the whole thing collapses. In the end we'll be the ones that will get everything back at us.

Oh, and I don't see why calling wolves noble and beautiful animals is wrong or strange. I think they are too. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Edit - word swap (tried to find the right word). [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 10-18-2002, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: Spelca ]

10-18-2002, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MagiK:
Hi Moni I just sent you a PM.

Now about your post, Oh I know quite well what was going on with wolf hunting, the early people in this country were more interested in beaver, deer and bear pelt, wolf pelts were accepted but fetched much lower prices and so were never really eagerly sought. Wolves and other predators were too dangerous in the 15 and 1600's for hunters to really want to take the chance on going after them alone, the real slaughter didnt start till colonies were settled and the wolves were driven off or killed to protect the colonies. The early firearms were not accurate at all and tryingto defend yourself against a pack of wolves was not something you did when it took 2 minutes or more to reload. (try reloading a muzzleloader when all wrapped up to protect against the cold some times) There are to this day still problems with wolves in siberia attacking small villages and carrying off younger children. Im right now in the middle of a History class that happens to be all about the 1500-1877 in the New World. We have discussed in depth the fur trades and what was and was not a marketable commodity....Did you know that some beaver back then were 10 foot long?? those things were HUGE now days its hard to find one longer than three feet. I could not believe the size of those beasties.

PM received and answered. [img]smile.gif[/img]
Where did you get the info on wolves stealing small Siberian children?
Beavers being 10 ft long?
I'd like to read up on those uh, facts?

Djinn Raffo · 10-18-2002, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moni:

Where did you get the info on wolves stealing small Siberian children?
Beavers being 10 ft long?
I'd like to read up on those uh, facts?

Thats a big beaver. (Sorry, couldnt resist. [img]smile.gif[/img] )

10-18-2002, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo:
Thats a big beaver. (Sorry, couldnt resist. [img]smile.gif[/img] )

LMAO! It ain't mine, man!
[img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img]

10-18-2002, 08:52 PM	#47
Spelca Emerald Dragon Join Date: January 3, 2002 Location: From Slovenia, in Sweden Age: 42 Posts: 931	Ohwell, I guess I'll try posting... [img]tongue.gif[/img] Wolves have been endangered in Slovenia for a long time. Their numbers were very low, and we were trying very hard to bring them up. We finally did it, when the farmers who settled in their territory in the meantime (and some before) decided that the wolves kill too many of their sheep and that because of that 6 of them should be killed. They actually managed to kill 2 of them, but the people and environmentalists were so upset because of the whole thing that they were forbidden to kill more. These were farmers that had their farms where they knew there were wolves. They didn't have any fences around their land. They didn't try in any other way to protect themselves against wolves. And this is what bothers me sometimes... People just try to find the easiest way out. The wolves are killing the herds? Oh yea, lets kill them all. Why would we try to figure out why they're killing the herds. Or why would we try building some fences, or maybe try relocating the wolves. It's easier to just kill them. Now I know sometimes there is no other choice but to kill a wolf, like self-defence. But to kill an endangered animal because it's eating your sheep, and not because it's endangering you personally or because it's terminally ill, or even before trying to do something else, is just wrong. This animal is endangered in a lot of places and by killing one animal you are endangering the survival of the whole species. It makes me angry that some people are trying to make wolves seem evil. They are not evil. They're wolves. Wolves hunt and eat meat. They attack when they feel threatened. And they might attack when their territory all of a sudden changes... But they do not kill just for the sake of killing. We, humans, do that. If anybody's evil, then we are. We have to take responsibility for what we did. We destroyed so many species already, and invaded and destroyed their habitats. Some even before we really got to know them. Some of these species might have been able to help us cure some diseases. And even if the specie doesn't seem to be useful much, it's still important. I've always imagined Nature to be like one of those 3D puzzles... You push one piece out, and it might still stand. You push out enough of them, and the whole thing collapses. In the end we'll be the ones that will get everything back at us. Oh, and I don't see why calling wolves noble and beautiful animals is wrong or strange. I think they are too. [img]smile.gif[/img] Edit - word swap (tried to find the right word). [img]tongue.gif[/img] [ 10-18-2002, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: Spelca ] __________________ At one time or another there will be a choice: you or the wall. (J. Winterson)

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10-18-2002, 08:35 PM	#41
pritchke Bastet - Egyptian Cat Goddess Join Date: September 5, 2001 Location: Calgary, AB Age: 49 Posts: 3,491	It is amazing of the peoples lack of knowledge about wolves. You are more likely to be attacked by mans best friend or lightning than a wolf, and wolf attacks on man are so rare that I would rather say that it is more something out of a hollywood movie. Have you people been watching to many Howling movies. Please provide links to actual newspaper articles of wolves attacking people in the last 100 years I am quite sure that it would be difficult and you would find tons more on dog attacks, shark attacks, and coyote attacks on babies. Also it is usually a pack of wild dogs or a pack of coyotes that give wolves a bad name. If I met a pack of wolves in the woods I would do absolutly nothing but stand still and watch until they left. If you panic and run you may actually frighten them and give them a reason to attack, most animals will run from you including bears most of the time. But bears can be a little unpredictable, as for the tiger being mans only natural enemy on land I would stick the polar bear in there as well, as they are very agressive bears, more so than the other types. But even they don't make a habit of seaking out human settlements and hunting down humans.

10-18-2002, 08:39 PM	#42
Neb Account deleted by Request Join Date: May 17, 2001 Location: . Age: 38 Posts: 8,802	In extension of Pritchke's post: Perhaps the wolves attacking the Siberian villages are Dog/Wolf hybrids? They are by far the the most vicious dog-like creatures in existence to the best of my memory. And they would bear enough of a resemblance to a wolf, I believe, that anyone being attacked by them would be fooled since he/she couldn't really double-check. And since there are packs of wild dogs, perhaps the original settlers of the New World had the same problem? Or perhaps we're just getting distorted reports from back then since it IS a while ago and even now people are driven to exaggeration. After seeing some of those slightly dangerous-looking critters, the wolves, the settlers might have cooked up a story about being attacked by them.

10-18-2002, 08:42 PM	#43
Djinn Raffo Ra Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: Ant Hill Age: 49 Posts: 2,397	It 1998 I was in northern Alberta treeplanting. Me and my planting partner were getting close to the treeline when we looked up and saw at least six wolves pacing around just inside the forest cover. They knew we were there. We turned around and walked away from them and went about our business. We shut her down for the day deciding we would rather smoke butts at the heli landing area (this was a fly-in camp) and didnt want to keep working near them just to stay on the safe side of caution. We could still check em out from where we were and we stayed on the cutblock for the rest of the day smoking (was only an hour or two left before heli came). Pretty wicked encounter actually. I've also had many many days where we encountered bears. Whenever we saw them...we kept working...unless it had cubs. imo most animal attacks on humans are because of the stupidity of humans ("awwww.. they so cute lets feed em.")

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