Spellcasters and Party Members (Spoilers)

[Gangrell]

I just started back with Bg2 after about a five month break, and I need some new ideas for the age old question "Who should I put in my party?"

Spoiler...ish
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I'm trying to go for a balanced out party and I have a few ideas, but I need some advice. This is what I have so far as a party formation.

• Pc - Generic Archer, soon to be dual classed over to a thief at 15th level.
• Jaheira - Good tank when combined with the right weapons (Water's Talon, so forth) and Insect Swarm is great against wizards.
• Imoen - Makes a decent mage in her higher levels.
• Chloe - Great tank, great weapons especially when you reach Spellhold. So far, next to Kelsey, one of the best Mod NPC's to date.

So my question is, for a solid spellcaster, should I go with Talia or Aerie?

And I need a sixth pc, so I'm open to suggestions on what to get.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

I don't know Talia, but it appears that you need a cleric. Take Aerie. Or, make your PC a cleric.

[wally p]

You don't necessarily need a cleric beyond what Jaheira can provide.

Turning undead is a nifty (but unnecessary) skill, but Anomen's cleric levels should advance faster than Aerie's.

Aerie's a good NPC, regardless, but you don't necessarily *need* her skads of spells--Imoen is quite a powerful mage with nice thief skills thrown in, and Jaheira is cleric enough for healing--summon woodland beings nets you mass cure before a cleric does.

in general, BG2 makes clerics less essential than arcane spellcasters, as weird as that is compared to PnP.

[Jerr Conner]

Well, a Cleric does have Protection From Evil 10' Radius.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

I realize all of this, but I'm saying that you might need more than one healer in the party. There are several reasons:
a) You might not want to make Jahiera play healer when she makes such a good tank
b) Jahiera might want to memorize things like Iron Skins and Summon Elemental, not healing spells
c) Sometimes, for difficult battles, you need more than one divine spellcaster. You might want Jahiera to play tank and memorize Iron Skins... but what if you need Chaotic Commands? Better to have a second cleric. But that's my opinion. Hell, you can get through the game with only one char, so what you do with your party is personal preference.

Not only that, but Aerie (or any other cleric/mage) would provide balance in this party. You'd have two half-mages, two half-clerics one half-thief, and one quasi-thief. SO, if you don't pick up Aerie (Or another cleric/mage along the way), you should consider a solid warrior class for your second PC.

[Gangrell]

Well, I do see your arguement Illumina, and I probably will have her stand away from the battles to cast and heal. Aerie is a good cleric but I think the biggest advantage of having her is her vast spellbook. Having a potion of genius and depending on how many scrolls you pick up along the way, she could have an very large and resourceful spellbook. But sorcerers are always good to have because you know the spells you have and can use ahead of time.

As for the party medic, I understand I may need more than one, which I might use as the 6th npc (Viconia probably) but for the most part I use potions in many of my battles. The only real healing spell I use is Mass Cure and that's about it. That may be a bad idea but it works for me anyway.

[ 01-26-2004, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: Gangrell ]

[wally p]

well to play devil's advocate, here are the responses:

a) You might not want to make Jahiera play healer when she makes such a good tank

1) rarely are healers needed in the heat of battle when healing potions are faster, are abundant, don't require memorization, and generally, do a better job of healing.

2) If tank means someone to soak up damage rather than dish it out, I don't see the conflict between casting while sitting in front of an enemy both dispensing clerical help and soaking up damage.

3) depending on the mods installed, the need for the entire library divine spells can vary greatly. In vanilla SoA and ToB, if combat healing is severely needed and must be non-potion based, usually something preventative has been overlooked.

b) Jahiera might want to memorize things like Iron Skins and Summon Elemental, not healing spells

1) most HP-replenishment spells are a no-go, not worth really memorizing even if you had a pure cleric, so the point of Jaheira memorizing them is made more moot.

2) Jaheira can combine the best of both worlds. Summon Woodland Beings, which is available right out of the first dungeon, is a first class summon in the early game. Replete with disabling spells and "mass cure," the summon is both healing and offense in one big nymphy package

3) Jaheira also can memorize Wondrous Recalls which adds a dimension of flexibility to her spell-casting. If you *really* want more Ironskins, bring them back. If you *really* need that Cure Critical Wounds or Chaotic Commands right now, call that back as well.

4) Divine spellcasters get a boatload of spells per level, easily more than their arcane counterparts. not having enough spell slots to be comfortable is not something clerics really experience. this is especially true if there is an exp-cap remover or ToB is installed, opening interesting HLAs.

5) Imoen is going to be in the party--a very strong mage. She can handle the heavy magic artillery and spare Jaheira's spell selection the directly offensive spells.

c) Sometimes, for difficult battles, you need more than one divine spellcaster. You might want Jahiera to play tank and memorize Iron Skins... but what if you need Chaotic Commands? Better to have a second cleric. But that's my opinion. Hell, you can get through the game with only one char, so what you do with your party is personal preference.

1) In vanilla SoA or ToB I have yet to encounter a situation wherein I needed a second divine spellcaster. In fact, with mods, I have not found this to be true either. And that's the point I'm disputing--not that such a thing would be nice or that some players might find it necessary, but that it is necessary for a BG player as you imply here and before, using the second person (impersonal):

I don't know Talia, but it appears that you need a cleric.

2) by the time those difficult battles roll around, Jaheira should have a lot of lvl 5 slots plus plenty of spots for wondrous recalls. It's probably not necessary to dedicate all of those to summon elementals (particularly when Imoen will probably have better summons at this point) or Ironskins--she'll probably have more than will be used before other partymembers need to rest.

3) on a side note--in an unmodded game, a lot of the cleric protection spells are made moot or rendered less useful by important mage or other druid spells and equipment. Why worry about being charmed when you can unleash mass invisibility and/or nature's beauty?

I agree that Aerie is a good pick, but I don't think that Imoen counts as a "half mage" or a quasi-thief. As she is, she is already tripped out to perform all necessary thief-duties in the game, as well as present a very formidable mage-presence. I would lean more towards getting 1 solid fighter type (Jaheira's not bad, but there are a lot of toys in the game that she can't use due to her Druid restrictions) Keldorn mebbe? and another hybrid type--I'm fond of Haer'dalis, myself, but I understand that it would be an understatement to say that he's not to everyone's taste. [img]smile.gif[/img]

and ultimately, it's all about taste--a party is balanced when one has fun, not necessarily because a "balanced party" = 2 fighter type + 1 C/M + 1 mage + 1 cleric + 1 thief, though that certainly is a fun party in its own right. I just wanted to point to the other side of the coin since I don't think there are parts of the game that require a cleric in the same way the game seems to require some form of thief.

[ 01-26-2004, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: wally p ]

[Jerr Conner]

Healing spells are more than useful, IMO, if you know when exactly to cast them. Besides, they're definitely useful for when your PC is getting major HP loss right after they just took a healing potion, and they can't drink another one anytime soon. Especially early on in the game.

Truthfully, you don't even need to memorize that many heal spells, just one slot for each spell level is enough.

[Gangrell]

Originally posted by Jerr Conner: Healing spells are more than useful, IMO, if you know when exactly to cast them. Besides, they're definitely useful for when your PC is getting major HP loss right after they just took a healing potion, and they can't drink another one anytime soon. Especially early on in the game. Truthfully, you don't even need to memorize that many heal spells, just one slot for each spell level is enough.

Casting healing spells is time consuming, and IMO potions are the best call. In the thick of things in a battle, you're more likely to get hit and the spell be interrupted and have that loss or just drink a healing potion to be healed quickly. From what I can tell, a Cure Serious Wounds spell works about as well as a healing potion does or visa versa, so like I said, the only spell taking a risk on casting in battle (healing wise) is Mass Cure.

[Dayhawk]

does no one here consider Edwin? edwin is teh win. much <3 for Edwin.