About Banning or Suspending someone...

Ziroc · 11-28-2001, 08:04 AM

I have noticed when one of our Moderators or I ban or suspend (Or ask for an account to be banned/suspended) that the we get emails from others--usually friends of the banned or Suspended user asking us not to, or to reconsider.

Please, don't do this. It will not change my mind, nor anyone elses. When we (or I) decide to take this action, it is final.

It's also just wrong to do. Please respect our Moderators and my decisions in these and all matters related to the board.

We do NOT 'take sides', and we are totally unbiased when making judgements in matters here. We play no favorites.

Just wanted to say this:

Because when we make a decision -- [img]graemlins/survivor.gif[/img]

Legolas · 11-28-2001, 09:49 AM

I can imagine it's annoying when your inbox is flooding with dozeens of posts about the same subject [img]smile.gif[/img]
But I know, and everyone knows, moderators and webmasters are only human and sometimes make a mistake, acting too fast or behaving too strict, for example. In such a case I think it's a good thing people point this out, provided they have valid arguments against the banning or suspending. These are usually the friends of a banned or suspended member, not only because they care more about their friend's fate, but also because they are more aware of that member's actions to that point and can, at times, give a better judgement than a moderator.

That's not to say you should allow everything, and that all bannings or suspensions are undeserved. Most of the time your judgement is correct, though on some days you are quicker to suspend than on others.

I will of course respect your desicion and do my best not send any mails, but if I truly feel the suspending or banning was undeserved I doubt if I can keep my mouth shut. I think this goes for a lot of other members too, and the banning or suspending of an older member will almost always get you replies.

But, like I said, as long as the banning or suspending is not totally undeserved, no pleading mails from me.

Sazerac · 11-28-2001, 10:59 AM

It does bear repeating, Ziroc, and thank you for posting it. Naming no names, but there has been a recent trend of people once again accusing mods of having double standards and playing unfair. (Not here in Gen Con, thank goodness, but in other forums).

Get this through, guys: Ziroc owns this place. He makes the rules. This "ain't no" public park or civic center. Your tax dollars don't support Ironworks. This isn't a corporation, with the members being the stockholders (thank the heavens!). This is a privately owned forum, and as far as I can tell, is one of the better run and more lenient ones out there. This isn't a democracy. There is no congress or parliament here. It's a dictatorship, guys. A very benevolent one, but a dictatorship. Guess what? So's every other privately owned forum on the Internet. A lot of those aren't so benevolent. Welcome to our world.

Banning and suspending are NOT taken lightly here. These are extreme measures taken only when a member has repeatedly acted in an inappropriate manner to the detriment of the board and to other members' participation in that board. Now we have seen a suspension and a ban as of yesterday. Both of those members had been repeatedly warned of their behavior, and yet persisted in doing the very same things they had been warned about. In that case, it is Ziroc's perogative to enact whatever measures he sees fit for the benefit of the overall board. BTW, just because you don't see a public posting of someone being reprimanded doesn't mean that it didn't happen. Most of the warnings take place via private e-mail to avoid public humiliation. Again, not all boards are so "nice."

We have repeatedly had a call to publicly excoriate one of our members at IW for offhand remarks he made at the expense of others in one of the other forums here. That member has been warned and reprimanded for his actions as per our policies, and he backed off and DID NOT REPEAT HIS BEHAVIOR. Yet there's a contingency out there howling for his blood; that nothing less than a virtual "public lynching" will satisfy their bloodlust, and who scream every time someone is reprimanded that Ziroc and the mods have a "double standard" and are playing favorites. Never mind that we've seen far worse posted by other members who were also neither banned nor suspended. (Don't call me on this...I can pull up old threads as proof. My memory's not THAT bad!)

This is what Ziroc is referring to. Now, as far as I know, no one else is in any danger of being suspended or banned. When Ziroc makes a ruling such as this, you certainly do not have to agree. But you must agree to abide by whatever decision he makes. That's the rules here, guys.

OK, rant mode off (finally!)

Reeka · 11-28-2001, 11:32 AM

I have to support Z totally here and Saz. I have only been an admin on another forum for about three weeks now and I have found out the hard way that things go on that ONLY the admins and mods know about. In some cases, information that ONLY the admins receive about inappropriate behavior by members. What I am saying is this. Many times, ONLY the admins and mods have a complete picture of what has been and is going on. Some of this is due to trying to protect the privacy of members on the forums. I know it is easy to sit back and second guess what an admin or mod does (I've done it myself many times), but I have found out that when it comes to bannings and suspensions, the ONLY people with all the facts and knowledge about the situation are the admins and mods.

I can say that in all the time I have been here, I have NEVER known Z to ban someone and it did not turn out to be justified. And even though I belong to other forums, I still think IW is the best run one around. Our mods are fantastic. I say this, being an admin and mod myself elsewhere.

We all need to have some faith and confidence in Z and the excellent mods he has selected to run things. And we need to remember that things are not always what they seem.

Thanks, Z and all the mods. You all do a wonderful job and have my full support.

[img]smile.gif[/img]

Avatar · 11-28-2001, 11:36 AM

I think any emails should not be sent to the already busy moderators but to the person suspended...

If you are a friend then you should have tried to stop him/her long ago and not wait for the suspension.

If you disagree, then you too are on the wrong forum.

Neb · 11-28-2001, 11:37 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Avatar:
I think any emails should not be sent to the already busy moderators but to the person suspended...

If you are a friend then you should have tried to stop him/her long ago and not wait for the suspension.

If you disagree, then you too are on the wrong forum.

Wise words from Avatar everyone.

Melusine · 11-28-2001, 11:49 AM

Sorry for being stupid, but who were banned?

I must have missed it!

And I agree with Reeka's and Saz's post that forums like these in the end belong to the owner, and if the owner makes a decision, that is his right to do so. Like Saz said, it's not a democracy but a privately owned forum, and though Ziroc is a reasonable guy, in the end HE has the final vote on anything that goes on here.

Sir ReGiN · 11-28-2001, 12:01 PM

Hmm...someone's been banned?!
Why didn't someone tell me!!
*Guys, get your pitchforks and torches! Someone got banned!*

No seriously, I respect whatever the mods say.
And, as Avatar said, if you were there fiend, why didn't you stop them?
Still, just as the mods, the members are also human, and it is a human reaction, trying to "help" your friend..no matter how much you neglected them before..

This is tricky..I wouldn't want to be in the mods shoes..

Larry_OHF · 11-28-2001, 12:01 PM

Let me make an example of how private those private threads are in dealing with an accused suspect and a Moderator that is working the case...

I am a Moderator, and I have NO IDEA what is going on, nor who has been banned or suspended! Can you beleive that?

I used to think that if one moderator had a problem...they all communicated back and forth. I also used to think that Ziroc sent all mods a weekly report of things.(don't ask why I thought this...)...
The truth is that I am in the dark on all of it, unless it has happened at my doorstep, and even then, I am not told what actions are taking place to do someone in.

Aragorn1 · 11-28-2001, 12:03 PM

If you have got a problem, why don't you set up a petition, where all you have to do is add your name, and one of the mods can veiw it and take it into consideration?
(Just a suggestion, if this is a bad idea tell me)

11-28-2001, 08:04 AM	#1
Ziroc Ironworks Webmaster *Bow to the Meow* Join Date: January 4, 2001 Location: Lakeland, Florida Age: 51 Posts: 11,720	I have noticed when one of our Moderators or I ban or suspend (Or ask for an account to be banned/suspended) that the we get emails from others--usually friends of the banned or Suspended user asking us not to, or to reconsider. Please, don't do this. It will not change my mind, nor anyone elses. When we (or I) decide to take this action, it is final. It's also just wrong to do. Please respect our Moderators and my decisions in these and all matters related to the board. We do NOT 'take sides', and we are totally unbiased when making judgements in matters here. We play no favorites. Just wanted to say this: Because when we make a decision -- [img]graemlins/survivor.gif[/img] __________________ Ziroc™ Ironworks Gaming Webmaster www.ironworksgaming.com The Great Escape Studios - 2D/3D Modeling www.tgeweb.com & Ziroc's Facebook Page Visit My Flickr Photo Album

11-28-2001, 09:49 AM	#2
Legolas Jack Burton Join Date: March 31, 2001 Location: The zephyr lands beneath the brine. Age: 39 Posts: 5,459	I can imagine it's annoying when your inbox is flooding with dozeens of posts about the same subject [img]smile.gif[/img] But I know, and everyone knows, moderators and webmasters are only human and sometimes make a mistake, acting too fast or behaving too strict, for example. In such a case I think it's a good thing people point this out, provided they have valid arguments against the banning or suspending. These are usually the friends of a banned or suspended member, not only because they care more about their friend's fate, but also because they are more aware of that member's actions to that point and can, at times, give a better judgement than a moderator. That's not to say you should allow everything, and that all bannings or suspensions are undeserved. Most of the time your judgement is correct, though on some days you are quicker to suspend than on others. I will of course respect your desicion and do my best not send any mails, but if I truly feel the suspending or banning was undeserved I doubt if I can keep my mouth shut. I think this goes for a lot of other members too, and the banning or suspending of an older member will almost always get you replies. But, like I said, as long as the banning or suspending is not totally undeserved, no pleading mails from me. __________________ Say NO to the Trouser Tyranny!

11-28-2001, 10:59 AM	#3
Sazerac Ironworks Moderator Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Monroe, LA Age: 60 Posts: 7,387	It does bear repeating, Ziroc, and thank you for posting it. Naming no names, but there has been a recent trend of people once again accusing mods of having double standards and playing unfair. (Not here in Gen Con, thank goodness, but in other forums). Get this through, guys: Ziroc owns this place. He makes the rules. This "ain't no" public park or civic center. Your tax dollars don't support Ironworks. This isn't a corporation, with the members being the stockholders (thank the heavens!). This is a privately owned forum, and as far as I can tell, is one of the better run and more lenient ones out there. This isn't a democracy. There is no congress or parliament here. It's a dictatorship, guys. A very benevolent one, but a dictatorship. Guess what? So's every other privately owned forum on the Internet. A lot of those aren't so benevolent. Welcome to our world. Banning and suspending are NOT taken lightly here. These are extreme measures taken only when a member has repeatedly acted in an inappropriate manner to the detriment of the board and to other members' participation in that board. Now we have seen a suspension and a ban as of yesterday. Both of those members had been repeatedly warned of their behavior, and yet persisted in doing the very same things they had been warned about. In that case, it is Ziroc's perogative to enact whatever measures he sees fit for the benefit of the overall board. BTW, just because you don't see a public posting of someone being reprimanded doesn't mean that it didn't happen. Most of the warnings take place via private e-mail to avoid public humiliation. Again, not all boards are so "nice." We have repeatedly had a call to publicly excoriate one of our members at IW for offhand remarks he made at the expense of others in one of the other forums here. That member has been warned and reprimanded for his actions as per our policies, and he backed off and DID NOT REPEAT HIS BEHAVIOR. Yet there's a contingency out there howling for his blood; that nothing less than a virtual "public lynching" will satisfy their bloodlust, and who scream every time someone is reprimanded that Ziroc and the mods have a "double standard" and are playing favorites. Never mind that we've seen far worse posted by other members who were also neither banned nor suspended. (Don't call me on this...I can pull up old threads as proof. My memory's not THAT bad!) This is what Ziroc is referring to. Now, as far as I know, no one else is in any danger of being suspended or banned. When Ziroc makes a ruling such as this, you certainly do not have to agree. But you must agree to abide by whatever decision he makes. That's the rules here, guys. OK, rant mode off (finally!) __________________ "And all my days are trances, and all my nightly dreams, Are where thy grey eye glances, and where thy footstep gleams, In what ethereal dances, by what eternal streams..."

11-28-2001, 11:32 AM	#4
Reeka Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: March 2, 2001 Location: Birmingham, Alabama, USA Age: 70 Posts: 3,255	I have to support Z totally here and Saz. I have only been an admin on another forum for about three weeks now and I have found out the hard way that things go on that ONLY the admins and mods know about. In some cases, information that ONLY the admins receive about inappropriate behavior by members. What I am saying is this. Many times, ONLY the admins and mods have a complete picture of what has been and is going on. Some of this is due to trying to protect the privacy of members on the forums. I know it is easy to sit back and second guess what an admin or mod does (I've done it myself many times), but I have found out that when it comes to bannings and suspensions, the ONLY people with all the facts and knowledge about the situation are the admins and mods. I can say that in all the time I have been here, I have NEVER known Z to ban someone and it did not turn out to be justified. And even though I belong to other forums, I still think IW is the best run one around. Our mods are fantastic. I say this, being an admin and mod myself elsewhere. We all need to have some faith and confidence in Z and the excellent mods he has selected to run things. And we need to remember that things are not always what they seem. Thanks, Z and all the mods. You all do a wonderful job and have my full support. [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ <b>Order of the Holy Flame</b><br /><i>Member of Clan HADB</i><br /><b>Laughing Hyena</b><br /><i>Clan Liaison, IW Peace Keeping Force</i><br /><i>[url]\"http://www.the-silver-river.com/Forum/index.php?board=29\" target=\"_blank\">The Silver River VoiceChat!</a><br />Last Saturday of every month. <br />See the forum link for scheduling!<br /><b> </b><br /></i><br /><b>Admin and Co-Owner of [url]\"http://www.the-silver-river.com\" target=\"_blank\">The Silver River</a></b><br />[url]\"http://www.the-silver-river.com\" target=\"_blank\"></a>

11-28-2001, 11:36 AM	#5
Avatar Vampire Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: Cambridge Age: 40 Posts: 3,877	I think any emails should not be sent to the already busy moderators but to the person suspended... If you are a friend then you should have tried to stop him/her long ago and not wait for the suspension. If you disagree, then you too are on the wrong forum. __________________ <b>Ê†ë®Ñï†Ý \'s Avariel<br /></b><br />Creator and Mithril Protector of the ALSB Clan <br /> [img]\"http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/avatar.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

11-28-2001, 11:37 AM	#6
Neb Account deleted by Request Join Date: May 17, 2001 Location: . Age: 38 Posts: 8,802	quote: Originally posted by Avatar: I think any emails should not be sent to the already busy moderators but to the person suspended... If you are a friend then you should have tried to stop him/her long ago and not wait for the suspension. If you disagree, then you too are on the wrong forum. Wise words from Avatar everyone.

11-28-2001, 11:49 AM	#7
Melusine Dracolisk Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands Age: 43 Posts: 6,541	Sorry for being stupid, but who were banned? I must have missed it! And I agree with Reeka's and Saz's post that forums like these in the end belong to the owner, and if the owner makes a decision, that is his right to do so. Like Saz said, it's not a democracy but a privately owned forum, and though Ziroc is a reasonable guy, in the end HE has the final vote on anything that goes on here. __________________ [img]\"hosted/melusine.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /><br />Your voice is ambrosia

11-28-2001, 12:01 PM	#8
Sir ReGiN Gold Dragon Join Date: August 11, 2001 Location: The land of blonde virgins Age: 42 Posts: 2,563	Hmm...someone's been banned?! Why didn't someone tell me!! Guys, get your pitchforks and torches! Someone got banned! No seriously, I respect whatever the mods say. And, as Avatar said, if you were there fiend, why didn't you stop them? Still, just as the mods, the members are also human, and it is a human reaction, trying to "help" your friend..no matter how much you neglected them before.. This is tricky..I wouldn't want to be in the mods shoes..

11-28-2001, 12:01 PM	#9
Larry_OHF Ironworks Moderator Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Midlands, South Carolina Age: 48 Posts: 14,759	Let me make an example of how private those private threads are in dealing with an accused suspect and a Moderator that is working the case... I am a Moderator, and I have NO IDEA what is going on, nor who has been banned or suspended! Can you beleive that? I used to think that if one moderator had a problem...they all communicated back and forth. I also used to think that Ziroc sent all mods a weekly report of things.(don't ask why I thought this...)... The truth is that I am in the dark on all of it, unless it has happened at my doorstep, and even then, I am not told what actions are taking place to do someone in.

11-28-2001, 12:03 PM	#10
Aragorn1 Symbol of Cyric Join Date: July 3, 2001 Location: Cornwall England Age: 36 Posts: 1,197	If you have got a problem, why don't you set up a petition, where all you have to do is add your name, and one of the mods can veiw it and take it into consideration? (Just a suggestion, if this is a bad idea tell me)

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