What if Germany has won WW I

[faiden]

Well one thing is for sure. Time does seem to repeat itself even if it takes a millenia. No world power has stayed in power forever. No matter how good or bad it was it has fallen or moved over to one more dominating whether economically or militarily. I am from US myself but i know it wont last because history says it cant.Coming from an existance of country living(gardens and livestock) i can definatley see things changing in my lifetime let alone how dramamtically it has changed in the last 100 years.

[General Nosaj]

Remember that WW1 was motivated by unrest in the Balkans and that Germany, Britain, France, Russia ect were dragged into it. It was not the kind of war the Nazis had planned and wanted but was more of a war of hatered and the creation of Lebensraum. I don't think you would have many concentration camps and whatever as the leader at the time was not an extreme fascist like Hitler who did not pick on certain races. However our culture would be nothing like what it is today but instead like one of a defeated nation like Ireland was when it had been taken by the British Empire but with a bit more of an aggresive approach.

[mad=dog]

To try and comprehend what today would be like if we altered an event 90 years ago is not possible. Far too many things are sparked by a random event. A genius and a dictator is born. A person tampering with a piece of equipment makes a new discovery.
It seems likely that we would have nuclear power. Even in the 1910's nuclear physics were pretty well developed. It would have taken a long time before a company/nation would have substantial financial backing to develop a process for extraction and purification. The plutonium and uranium for the first two bombs costed several billion $ to develop. Not exactly a small buisness endavour.
It also seems likely that Russia would have gone through a revolution briefly after the now non-existant WWI. Imperial Russia was not an entirely cheery place. It seems likely that the revolution would have been less violent as the country would not have been as militarized. I think the Trozkij faction would have had the best backing and I predict a Russia with elections, but still very socialistic. Most likely the US and Russia would not have been best friends.
This leads to the most important impact. Without WWI and WWII we would have a lot of unresolved buisness. 30 to 50% of the globe would still be colonies and frequent localized wars would have been fought over territory. Especially where the Congress of Europe is unable to resolve the dispute between two great powers.
The USA would still be governed by the Monroe doctine and would not interfere with world politics as such. However they will interfere GREATLY in American hemisphere foreign politics. Local wars and instabilities in South America will most likely have led the US to seize and control several South American countries for length times.
I think the remaining European monarchies will become constitutional monarchies pretty soon, following English, Swedish, Dutch, Danish and many other examples. The Hungaro-Austrian union will most likely disolve in more or less the same fashion as post-war Czeckoslovakia did. We must also assume that Austria/Hungary did not annex Croatia and Bosnia, because that was the reason why Gavrilo Principe assasinated Ferdinand.
Too many event lie inbetween. My head hurts.

EDIT:
I just noticed the wording in the title.
1) There are no winners in war. There are two losers - a big and a small one.
2) It is very unlikely that Germany would have "won". I think the best assumption would be that WWI never took place. In the event that WWI did start let's assume a quick mutual truce was signed or that all parties were able to make separate peace with the offender.

[ 05-11-2004, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: mad=dog ]

[Black Baron]

I feel that i must clarify several important things. They are too important not to be clarified.
Everything here is said without any trace of humor.

1. Communists caused WW1. Radek confessed as much prior to his execution. The censure missed it. No one will argue that ww1 was good for lenin and his goons. For detailed info look at "lenins case without make up" by Akim Artyunov. Based on archive materials.

2. CPSU (Communist Party of the Soviet Union) goal was to take over the world. If you do not believe it-remember Nazis had the same goal too.
Proof-too long to explain here. Look at Viktor suvorov's books-"M for mobilization day", "Icebreaker" and "the last republic" for detailed info. Some things there are wrong (like the boasting about the superb training of Red Army troops, but the rest is right). Stalin engeneered WW2. Why? In order to craete a communist state that will endure one must take over the globe, or the state will not exist. There is no 1 true communistic state that survived till now.

3. The russian people did not want communists, not trozky, not lenin, none. They snatched the power from the "Vremennoe Pravitelstvo" (the temprorary government under Kerensky), by force. In order to achieve victory Lenin hired mercanaires, from China, Lituania and Germany.

4. 1+2+3=yet another world war. Different time, different settings but all the same. The communists snatched with the help of germany (read AA book about lenin) the power in russia, and would have stopped at nothing short of hanging.

[Link]

Don't forget that Tsar Nicholas (Russia) and Emperor Wilhelm (Germany) were related. The Willy-Nicky telegrams are a good example of their close relationship [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Yorick]

What are you talking about? Europe are now uniting, and the very strong economy of Germany is pivotal in direction and policy.

Who says they lost the war(s)?

[Mack_Attack]

Originally posted by johnny: Then Ironworks wouldn't exist. Instead we'd be posting in a forum called "Sauerkraut", and the topics would be about bradwurst and beer.

Always leave it up to johnny to lighten the mood. Speaken of Bradwurst I had it the other day for supper darn good stuff.

But not to take away from your question which is a intresting one.

[ 05-11-2004, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: Mack_Attack ]

[Arledrian]

Originally posted by Mack_Attack: But not to take away from your question which is a intresting one.

Call me a philistine if you will, but I actually think bradwurst and beer sounds more interesting right about now... mmmm...

[Faceman]

Originally posted by Black Baron: I feel that i must clarify several important things. They are too important not to be clarified. Everything here is said without any trace of humor.

Your statements hold important points, BlackBaron, but their a bit monocausal so I'll elaborate.

1. Communists caused WW1. Radek confessed as much prior to his execution. The censure missed it. No one will argue that ww1 was good for lenin and his goons. For detailed info look at "lenins case without make up" by Akim Artyunov. Based on archive materials.

WWI was an almost inevitable culmination of the power buildup of two alliances (Entente, Prussia-Austria). Germany and Austria as much wanted the war as Russia, Serbia, England and France did.

2. CPSU (Communist Party of the Soviet Union) goal was to take over the world. If you do not believe it-remember Nazis had the same goal too. Proof-too long to explain here. Look at Viktor suvorov's books-"M for mobilization day", "Icebreaker" and "the last republic" for detailed info. Some things there are wrong (like the boasting about the superb training of Red Army troops, but the rest is right). Stalin engeneered WW2. Why? In order to craete a communist state that will endure one must take over the globe, or the state will not exist. There is no 1 true communistic state that survived till now.

Trotzki's goal was to spread communism like missionaries, while Stalin tried to make a big model state others would follow (read up on George Orwell's "Animal Farm" )
Stalin was not opposed to WWII and he did use it to expand communist territory, but historically there is little doubt that Hitler (and his advisors) engineered and furthered WWII. After all it was them who occupied Czechoslovakia and ambushed Poland.
Also don't forget that there was a Pacific war too, which was promoted by expanding Japan. The USSR had very little part in it (I'm not saying none).

3. The russian people did not want communists, not trozky, not lenin, none. They snatched the power from the "Vremennoe Pravitelstvo" (the temprorary government under Kerensky), by force. In order to achieve victory Lenin hired mercanaires, from China, Lituania and Germany.

A large portion of the Russian people was opposed to Communism, true. But not all of them, after all Lenin, Stalin and Trotzki were Russians, weren't they

4. 1+2+3=yet another world war. Different time, different settings but all the same. The communists snatched with the help of germany (read AA book about lenin) the power in russia, and would have stopped at nothing short of hanging.

IMO WWII was factured by two expanding powers, Germany and Japan. The USSR was at that time trying to consolidate their ground and slowly expand through treaties and diplomatic influence (though that of course was not their master plan in the long run). They were quite poorly prepared and equipped for a full scale war and until the last years of the war relied mostly on manpower. Remember that at Stalingrad some soldiers were not handed a gun?

[Khazadman Risen]

Actually Stalin was a Georgian.