Yorrick (Or anyone) a Religous question...

[DragonMage]

Originally posted by Moridin: So at the time that Satan (Lucifer) was in heaven, it was possible to sin, but with his (satan's) being outcast the sin went with it?!? In otherwords, throwing Satan out of heaven is an analogy for throwing sin out of our lives?

I've always taken this to mean - NOT that sin couldn't occur in Heaven - but that if it DID, the one sinning was immediately sent out of Heaven because there can be no sin in Heaven. (Maybe similar to: it's posted NO SMOKING in the building. Someone lights up inside the building and is immediately sent outside.) And, IMHO, yes it can ALSO be an analogy for throwing sin out of our lives (if that's what it takes for you to resist sin).

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"Allright! We'll call it a draw."

"I'm INVINCIBLE! ... You're a LOONEY!"

Dare to dream. Be bold enough to try.

The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c)

[This message has been edited by DragonMage (edited 09-10-2001).]

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by DragonMage: I've always taken this to mean - NOT that sin couldn't occur in Heaven - but that if it DID, the one sinning was immediately sent out of Heaven because there can be no sin in Heaven. (Maybe similar to: it's posted NO SMOKING in the building. Someone lights up inside the building and is immediately sent outside.) And, IMHO, yes it can ALSO be an analogy for throwing sin out of our lives (if that's what it takes for you to resist sin).

But just as a smoker can be allowed in a non-smoking building so long as s/he doesn't smoke in there.... (follow the thought through!)




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[Yorick]

Originally posted by Grand-Ranger: Ok, this is confuesing me: Satan (Lusifer ,or how ever you spell it) got baned from heaven for trying to take gods place, that would be a sin right? But it says that there is no sin in heaven, so if there was no sin in heaven they how did Luseifer sin?? Any awnsers will be aperciated.

"Will be" is future tense. "Is" present and "was" past. The bible speaks of a new heaven and a new earth. It also speaks of both Lucifer and Death being cast into a "lake of fire" at the end of this existence. Presumably it is in the new heaven and earth - without Satan, without Death - that there will be no sin.

Talk of end times and the afterlife is so speculatory. I've never been one to ponder too much these mysteries. I'll find out soon enough. Right now I'm relishing knowing God in his creative artistic masterpiece. I'll have time enough to contemplate the afterlife for eternity....


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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[DragonMage]

Originally posted by Fljotsdale: But just as a smoker can be allowed in a non-smoking building so long as s/he doesn't smoke in there.... (follow the thought through!)

Point well taken. I should know better than to post before thinking it all the way through.

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"Allright! We'll call it a draw."

"I'm INVINCIBLE! ... You're a LOONEY!"

Dare to dream. Be bold enough to try.

The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c)

Who said Satan was IN heaven when he decided to start his revolt? Another problem I have with the whole concept here is that people seem to meander back and forth in one very important aspect of biblical interpretation....Some times they insist that the BIBLE is the literal word of god, if so why do so many bibles have different books included? Some have a certain book others do not.

And then there are parts of the bible that people insist are absolute truth of fact rather than parables (such as the creation story) and insist that others are just parables ..this happens a lot when people seem to need some argument to reinforce their contradictory messages. Seriously I think God created the univers with certain physical rules and laws and then stepped back to enjoy the show. Nice thing about my theory is that no one can disprove it Course no one can disprove any other theological argument either

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Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

Anyone here ever read Heinleins novel titled JOB?

great story ..In my opinion

Organized religion is one of the greatest con jobs ever perpetrated on the masses (no im not saing having faith in god is a con...just ORGANIZED religions)
it is a wonderful way to control the uneducated, illiterate peasents in a pre-industrialized civilization but the fact that it is responsible for so much monetary movement in a modern society tells you something of its unequalled fiscal ingenuity It's all a money game, god is in your hearts not your wallets.

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Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by MagiK: Organized religion is one of the greatest con jobs ever perpetrated on the masses (no im not saing having faith in god is a con...just ORGANIZED religions) it is a wonderful way to control the uneducated, illiterate peasents in a pre-industrialized civilization but the fact that it is responsible for so much monetary movement in a modern society tells you something of its unequalled fiscal ingenuity It's all a money game, god is in your hearts not your wallets.

Sorry you feel that way, but as someone who knows better, I disagree. Now it may be you've only been exposed to charlatans and those who do not practice what they claim to believe, or who for one reason or another had lapses or simply don't do as you expect them to do. Those Christians who do try to follow their faith according the teachings of Christ and law of God may not be as visible as the ones who don't. I don't claim to have all the answers, but I do claim to be a Christian who goes to 'organized' services. I do what I feel is right and necessary to be a good part of the community known as my local parish and from there I hope my actions have a ripple effect. Not everyone there is 'faithful' in the way I'd like, but then not everyone I meet in life is as friendly as I'd care for them to be or agreeable or interesting or attractive or... well you get the idea. We each have our own perceptions and throwing the whole apple away for a few bruises, means I might go hungry today. I'd rather cut the bad out and keep the good. My NOT doing what I know is right because someone else doesn't do it, is wrong.

Yes, there ARE many interpretations of the Bible and many arguments about it's validity in one way or another. That means we have to think a bit, read alot and if you have faith, pray alot.

Cloudy

PS: Oh, just had to add we aren't all exactly your 'uneducated, illiterate masses' either... LOL.. I have 2 college degrees. My parish tends to have upper middle class professionals as it's core membership. Most are pretty well educated and some have come from other branches of Christianity.
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Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."

[This message has been edited by Cloudbringer (edited 09-10-2001).]

[DragonMage]

Amen to that, Cloudy.

I can be eloquent, but for some reason I flub when it comes to explaining what I think about religion.

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"Allright! We'll call it a draw."

"I'm INVINCIBLE! ... You're a LOONEY!"

Dare to dream. Be bold enough to try.

The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c)

[adam warlock]

Originally posted by Grand-Ranger: Ok, this is confuesing me: Satan (Lusifer ,or how ever you spell it) got baned from heaven for trying to take gods place, that would be a sin right? But it says that there is no sin in heaven, so if there was no sin in heaven they how did Luseifer sin?? Any awnsers will be aperciated.

that's when he created the very first sin tsk tsk

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by DragonMage: Amen to that, Cloudy. I can be eloquent, but for some reason I flub when it comes to explaining what I think about religion.

Strangely enough, I feel that way alot of the time, DragonMage. I credit Yorick and (and Fljotsdale to some degree) for helping me to make written sense out of my beliefs. I often find that I can answer or add to one of their threads because it's easy to take a post of Yorick's and continue the thought process.

Fact is, I usually let Yorick do the explaining around here...he has a wonderful way of getting to the heart of the matter or discussion and my beliefs are so close to his that I rarely have to add much that differs. In this one respect, we diverge and that's because I do attend a regular service and parish. He takes the older and more direct approach of worshiping with other Christians wherever he happens to be and since our Bard does a heck of a lot of traveling, he shares with a lot of people!

BTW, nice to meet you DragonMage!

Cloudy

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Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."