Going down like ninepins - who's next?

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: One of the problems lies with the American right, they seem to believe that they are absolutely and unconditional and wholly right (so to speak) and will not brook any argument to the contrary. I suspect that the advent of the 3rd wave economies shift will start to make it even worse soon; I mean there are still some countries, which are feeling the advent of the industrial revolution. It's gonna probably get a lot worse before it gets better. We can already see Tony and his cronies trying to threaten the freedom of information and speech the internet brings with those damnable internet monitoring and records access rules.

Sorry, not quite clear. What do you mean when you say the 'advent of the 3rd wave ecomomies shift will start to make it even worse soon'??

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: Sorry, not quite clear. What do you mean when you say the 'advent of the 3rd wave ecomomies shift will start to make it even worse soon'??

A society becomes "third wave" when a majority of its labor force becomes mainly and irreversibly engaged in processing information and providing services, rather than directly producing "hard" commodities or farm products. In the U.S., this point was reached by 1960.

This does not mean that a third wave society stops producing the traditional goods of basic industry. It is an even greater industrial powerhouse than before; but now it manages to produce these goods with a relatively smaller and smaller proportion of the labor force.

A good analogy is U.S. agriculture. Less than 100 years ago, a majority of the American labor force worked on farms for a living. Today U.S. farms are the most productive in the world, supplying not only the domestic market but the world market as well. But now less than 3% of the labor force works on farms. Mechanization and relatively large amounts of fertile land are only part of the reason for this. U.S. farmers are also many times more productive than earlier farmers because of information--whether in the design of equipment, fertilizers or hybrid seeds, or in advance knowledge of weather patterns transmitted by modern communications.

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: A good analogy is U.S. agriculture. Less than 100 years ago, a majority of the American labor force worked on farms for a living. Today U.S. farms are the most productive in the world, supplying not only the domestic market but the world market as well. But now less than 3% of the labor force works on farms. Mechanization and relatively large amounts of fertile land are only part of the reason for this. U.S. farmers are also many times more productive than earlier farmers because of information--whether in the design of equipment, fertilizers or hybrid seeds, or in advance knowledge of weather patterns transmitted by modern communications.

Hmm. If they're so productive, why do they need those big fat subsidies, which are set to further distort the so called 'free market' which is in fact no such thing?

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: Hmm. If they're so productive, why do they need those big fat subsidies,

umm... aww... It was just an analogy. It’s not my fault; I spilt chocolate ice cream all over my keyboard!!!
Forgive me [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: which are set to further distort the so called 'free market' which is in fact no such thing?

the so-called free market operates on uneven fields of power that have an impact on transactions between buyer and seller.
Markets where the fields of power are guided by intelligence, however, can be a dynamic and creative force.

[ 06-29-2002, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: Dramnek_Ulk ]

[khazadman]

one easy way to solve this problem is to give long prison sentences to these guys.and put them in with the big boys,not in some minimum security prison.so i guess the 90's were the real decade of greed,huh?

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by khazadman: one easy way to solve this problem is to give long prison sentences to these guys.and put them in with the big boys,not in some minimum security prison.so i guess the 90's were the real decade of greed,huh?

Hmm. The 80s were pretty over the top too. It was all champers and coke, if I recall correctly. And that was just breakfast.

Originally posted by khazadman: [QB]one easy way to solve this problem is to give long prison sentences to these guys.and put them in with the big boys,not in some minimum security prison.so i guess the 90's were the real decade of greed,huh?

But if the opportunities and need remain, won’t people still carry on doing it?

Originally posted by khazadman: and the fantasy kind espoused by marx that will never work.

First of all it was Marx who originally created communism, the CCCP and PRC merely made their own interpretation of it, namely Marx-Leninism, Stalinism and Maoism.
And Secondly how so? Write a book if necessary [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[flibulzbuth]

Hmm. If they're so productive, why do they need those big fat subsidies, which are set to further distort the so called 'free market' which is in fact no such thing?

As you said, the US wouldn't be feeding the world without those big subsidies. Modern agricultural technics are very productive, but also very expensive. The mechanization costs are heavy, both in machines and fuel, and the high-yield crops developed since the 50ies require much more nitrates and phosphates (they suck dry the soil). Also, they have been genetically enhanced to produce, but they lack the resistances of the old ones. Hence the necessity of pesticides in conventional agriculture. All of these factors involve more mechanized work and costs.

Back on the main subject:

The good ol' solution to a falling economy is war. War is money and power for the few. The people accept all this, hiding their fears and the loss of their social standards in a cloak of patriotism. The more patriotism they have been fed with since childhood, the more sheepish they will be.
As an example, when the post-911 recession was stricking, the american missile-makers were going through record performances. Not bad for the Bushes, since they all have thight connexions to the Carlisle group.

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

Personaly I could care less about Enron , Worldcom or any of the rest of them. They are just victims of their own stupidity. The fat and lazy make for easy pickings in the real world. If you look at companys who have their shit together like Ford, Chevy , Sony, and Wal-Mart you will see companys that have been around for YEARS. The reason why they last has nothing to do with world economy or executive bonuses , it has to do with smart business practices. Things like spending less than you earn and not putting all your eggs in one basket.

All these companys going bankrupt is very similar to the dotcom fiasco. All thoes internet millionares went broke because even though they could make pretty web pages they were horrid at business. I wonder what they will do now? I wonder what the job market looks like for an over the hill overpaid ex CEO of a failed company?? Hopefully their familys are hideing all the guns and sleeping pills.Luckily for me my proffesion will always be in demand. I work as a chef and people will always need to eat. Maybe I should call up Enron and offer their CEO a job WASHING DISHES !!! MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by flibulzbuth: quote: Hmm. If they're so productive, why do they need those big fat subsidies, which are set to further distort the so called 'free market' which is in fact no such thing?

As you said, the US wouldn't be feeding the world without those big subsidies. Modern agricultural technics are very productive, but also very expensive. The mechanization costs are heavy, both in machines and fuel, and the high-yield crops developed since the 50ies require much more nitrates and phosphates (they suck dry the soil). Also, they have been genetically enhanced to produce, but they lack the resistances of the old ones. Hence the necessity of pesticides in conventional agriculture. All of these factors involve more mechanized work and costs.

Back on the main subject:

The good ol' solution to a falling economy is war. War is money and power for the few. The people accept all this, hiding their fears and the loss of their social standards in a cloak of patriotism. The more patriotism they have been fed with since childhood, the more sheepish they will be.
As an example, when the post-911 recession was stricking, the american missile-makers were going through record performances. Not bad for the Bushes, since they all have thight connexions to the Carlisle group.[/QUOTE]Um, since when is America feeding the world? You've got a massive trade deficit, - and it's been growing since the early 70s.

The big subsidies (similar to the ones we have in Europe - ours were bigger, now yours are going to be bigger... ) have the effect of creating an unequal playing field, especially for the developing countries, whose farming efforts are not generally subsidised. The price of commodities world wide comes down - the developing countries cant compete. What price free markets?