LoTR Question

Sir Goulum · 12-23-2002, 11:43 AM

In the back of my 'Return of the King' book, it shows a HUGE timeline of major events in Middle Earth. Now, from what I understood from the books was that there was only 2 uprisings of Sauron....but in the timeline he is dotted all over the place. Also, where the Elvish Smiths that made the rings of power under Saurons command when the made them? Just curios.... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Draten-Master of Fire and Ice · 12-23-2002, 12:52 PM

I know that before he was the main bad dude in Middle Earth, Sauron was Melkor's right-hand-buttwipe, so this may explain some of your question. As to the Elvish smiths who created the three elf-rings, they were not under the control of Sauron at the time and the three were never spoiled by the power of Sauron. Unfortunately, and here is the problem, if Sauron were to recover the One Ring Rule Them All then everthing that was wrought with the three would be undone and the elves would be laid bare to the Enemy.

Larry_OHF · 12-23-2002, 12:58 PM

<font color=skyblue>Also, as to your other question, there were two major uprisings...but in other books that contain scribblings and notes and odds and ends...compiled and published by his son...you learn more history of more detail where you see all that other stuff come to pass. I am told that the two most important ones, besides Simarillion, are the two books called Lost Tales, 1 & 2. I have yet to read them, but have been told much of their content.</font>

Sever · 12-24-2002, 02:48 AM

Sauron, has his hayday during the 2nd age of the sun. A vast era spanning no less than 3441 years in which he is ever present but has THREE major uprisings. The first being the War of Sauron and the Elves immedietly after the truth of the One ring is discovered. The second is the result of his capture at the hands of the Numenoreans (ancestors of the Dunedain) some 1620 years later and ends in the total destruction of Westernesse and the changing of the world. The third is the Last alliance of elves and men and the Battle of Dagorlad which everyone knows about because they saw it in the movie.

He and his Nazghul also have various uprisings in Angmar, Mirkwood and Minas Morgul and constantly harass the Dunedain throughout the Third age.

One little known point that is worth noting is that, from start (creation of Arda) to finish (migration to the Undying lands) there is 37063 years of history of conflicts between Valar, maiar, elf, orc and man. LotR covers a total time span of 1.

Lord Starshadow · 12-24-2002, 03:22 AM

The Elves and Sauron exchaged a lot of information during the time of the forging of the Rings of Power, and they thought him a friend for quite a while. Sauron learned the craft of ring-forging from the Elves, and he aided their creation of the Nine, which were given to Humans (who became the Nazgul), and the Seven, for the Dwarves (you may remember Gandalf mentioning trying to retrieve it from Thorin's father and of Balin's attempt to re-enter Moria). So while Sauron did not have a hand in the making of the Three, he was well-versed in their craft and so was able to create the One Ring. He did have to put a lot of his power into the making, and that's why he wants it so much.

Billy Yank · 12-24-2002, 04:29 PM

It should also be noted that all the rings were originally intended for the elves. Sauron's plan was to control the 19 most powerful elves with the One. But when he forged it, they knew immediatly that they had been betrayed and removed their rings. Sauron came North and slew Celebrimbor (the maker of the Three) and took the 16 rings he had helped make. Because he hadn't participated in the making of the Three, he wasn't able to find them. The keepers of the Three were unable to wear their rings until the defeat of Sauron at Dagorlad.

Tancred · 12-24-2002, 06:42 PM

Sauron hid in the East when Morgoth was overthrown. When he came out, he masqueraded as an emissary for the Valar (he was the right kind of creature to be so), calling himself 'Annatar'... Lord of Gifts. Some Elves greeted him warily. Others agreed with him to work to preserve Middle-Earth by using Rings of Power.

Tancred

Sir Goulum · 12-24-2002, 07:04 PM

Woa! Where do you find all this stuff?

Tancred · 12-24-2002, 09:33 PM

FIND it? I make all this stuff up!

Gammit · 12-25-2002, 12:12 PM

You can find this stuff in the Silmarillion, Lost Tales (my two favorite Tolkien books), and possibly in Letters. Great reads.

Cheers and happy christmas to those who celebrate it

12-23-2002, 12:52 PM	#2
Draten-Master of Fire and Ice Dungeon Master Join Date: December 5, 2002 Location: Deep within the Spikey Forest. Age: 50 Posts: 99	I know that before he was the main bad dude in Middle Earth, Sauron was Melkor's right-hand-buttwipe, so this may explain some of your question. As to the Elvish smiths who created the three elf-rings, they were not under the control of Sauron at the time and the three were never spoiled by the power of Sauron. Unfortunately, and here is the problem, if Sauron were to recover the One Ring Rule Them All then everthing that was wrought with the three would be undone and the elves would be laid bare to the Enemy. __________________ Going out your front door is dangerous buisiness...you never know where you might be swept off to. --Bilbo Baggins

12-23-2002, 12:58 PM	#3
Larry_OHF Ironworks Moderator Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Midlands, South Carolina Age: 48 Posts: 14,759	<font color=skyblue>Also, as to your other question, there were two major uprisings...but in other books that contain scribblings and notes and odds and ends...compiled and published by his son...you learn more history of more detail where you see all that other stuff come to pass. I am told that the two most important ones, besides Simarillion, are the two books called Lost Tales, 1 & 2. I have yet to read them, but have been told much of their content.</font> __________________

12-24-2002, 02:48 AM	#4
Sever Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: October 31, 2002 Location: Western Australia Age: 43 Posts: 3,293	Sauron, has his hayday during the 2nd age of the sun. A vast era spanning no less than 3441 years in which he is ever present but has THREE major uprisings. The first being the War of Sauron and the Elves immedietly after the truth of the One ring is discovered. The second is the result of his capture at the hands of the Numenoreans (ancestors of the Dunedain) some 1620 years later and ends in the total destruction of Westernesse and the changing of the world. The third is the Last alliance of elves and men and the Battle of Dagorlad which everyone knows about because they saw it in the movie. He and his Nazghul also have various uprisings in Angmar, Mirkwood and Minas Morgul and constantly harass the Dunedain throughout the Third age. One little known point that is worth noting is that, from start (creation of Arda) to finish (migration to the Undying lands) there is 37063 years of history of conflicts between Valar, maiar, elf, orc and man. LotR covers a total time span of 1. __________________ Say say, oh playmate i cannot play with you my dolly's got the flu boo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo

12-24-2002, 03:22 AM	#5
Lord Starshadow Quintesson Join Date: October 3, 2002 Location: The plane of non-existence... and Michigan Age: 43 Posts: 1,087	The Elves and Sauron exchaged a lot of information during the time of the forging of the Rings of Power, and they thought him a friend for quite a while. Sauron learned the craft of ring-forging from the Elves, and he aided their creation of the Nine, which were given to Humans (who became the Nazgul), and the Seven, for the Dwarves (you may remember Gandalf mentioning trying to retrieve it from Thorin's father and of Balin's attempt to re-enter Moria). So while Sauron did not have a hand in the making of the Three, he was well-versed in their craft and so was able to create the One Ring. He did have to put a lot of his power into the making, and that's why he wants it so much. __________________ Bah, I don\'t need a sig. You all don\'t care what I do anyway. <img border=\"0\" title=\"\" alt=\"[Razz]\" src=\"tongue.gif\" />

12-24-2002, 04:29 PM	#6
Billy Yank The Magister Join Date: March 4, 2002 Location: Northern Virginia Age: 58 Posts: 132	It should also be noted that all the rings were originally intended for the elves. Sauron's plan was to control the 19 most powerful elves with the One. But when he forged it, they knew immediatly that they had been betrayed and removed their rings. Sauron came North and slew Celebrimbor (the maker of the Three) and took the 16 rings he had helped make. Because he hadn't participated in the making of the Three, he wasn't able to find them. The keepers of the Three were unable to wear their rings until the defeat of Sauron at Dagorlad. __________________ [url]\"http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2xvw6/\" target=\"_blank\"></a>

12-23-2002, 11:43 AM	#1
Sir Goulum John Locke Join Date: February 7, 2002 Location: Edmonton, Canada Age: 35 Posts: 8,985	In the back of my 'Return of the King' book, it shows a HUGE timeline of major events in Middle Earth. Now, from what I understood from the books was that there was only 2 uprisings of Sauron....but in the timeline he is dotted all over the place. Also, where the Elvish Smiths that made the rings of power under Saurons command when the made them? Just curios.... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

12-24-2002, 06:42 PM	#7
Tancred White Dragon Join Date: April 1, 2001 Location: UK Age: 43 Posts: 1,893	Sauron hid in the East when Morgoth was overthrown. When he came out, he masqueraded as an emissary for the Valar (he was the right kind of creature to be so), calling himself 'Annatar'... Lord of Gifts. Some Elves greeted him warily. Others agreed with him to work to preserve Middle-Earth by using Rings of Power. Tancred __________________ \"HELP! I\'ve superglued myself to a flaming bowling ball!\"

12-24-2002, 07:04 PM	#8
Sir Goulum John Locke Join Date: February 7, 2002 Location: Edmonton, Canada Age: 35 Posts: 8,985	Woa! Where do you find all this stuff?

12-24-2002, 09:33 PM	#9
Tancred White Dragon Join Date: April 1, 2001 Location: UK Age: 43 Posts: 1,893	FIND it? I make all this stuff up! __________________ \"HELP! I\'ve superglued myself to a flaming bowling ball!\"

12-25-2002, 12:12 PM	#10
Gammit Elminster Join Date: October 26, 2001 Location: Sterling Heights, MI, USA Age: 46 Posts: 477	You can find this stuff in the Silmarillion, Lost Tales (my two favorite Tolkien books), and possibly in Letters. Great reads. Cheers and happy christmas to those who celebrate it __________________ IW resident science and mathematics teacher<br /><br />\"No, no, you\'re not thinking; you\'re just being logical.\"<br />-Niels Bohr

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