Cet

[Kakero]

The final fight with Cet is easy. Until he cast Fire Storm which took out 5 out of 6 of my characters. That was in my first fight with him. Luckily the only one survive it have resurrect spell.

My subsequent fight with him had no such mishap. I go into reverse gear as fast as I could when he cast that spell.

[Bungleau]

You're welcome on the compliments, Dragon2005. I only say them because they're true [img]smile.gif[/img]

BTW, the best thing about the ranger is the ability to learn fletchery. That's also known as the Gael Serran ATM, since it's a constant source of money. Just enchant a dragon arrow, start fletching it, and you can make millions. Literally.

I never have a problem with the final battle any more. If you enchant your rings and bracelets for protection from fire, ice, and magic (+4 each), you can actually cast a firestorm on yourself and do no damage. That's what Missy did when she took out Scanthril... [img]smile.gif[/img]

First time through, though, you generally don't know about those things, and it's much, much harder

[dragon2005]

cet did cast a fire srorm on me but it is really easy to avoid, you just go bacjk for a secand and that is it , cet will not attack you for about 10 rounds., and even if he will, he will do the burn spell.

and if you think about it he have the fire strom spell , thats mean he have the fire circol spell, dont you think it will be more effective for cet if he cast it?

[Bungleau]

One of the big challenges in gaming is creating monsters that are tough enough to be challenging, but not invincible. Imagine if Cet were wearing items of protection, and none of your spells worked against him? Or you attacked an opponent with as many spell options as you have? Or they started healing themselves in the middle of battle, just like you can do? I think that would frustrate a lot of gamers in a lot of ways.

Some games, like Dungeon Siege, are very linear -- you have to do things in a specific order. Might and Magic games went the other extreme -- you could go anywhere and do anything at any time. W&W falls in the middle -- flexibly linear. You have to go through the three towns, but within the town maps, you can do anything you want in any order. That's part of what makes it so appealing in many ways -- you are really in control.

It's not better, or worse... just the way it is.

[dragon2005]

Originally posted by Bungleau: One of the big challenges in gaming is creating monsters that are tough enough to be challenging, but not invincible. Imagine if Cet were wearing items of protection, and none of your spells worked against him? Or you attacked an opponent with as many spell options as you have? Or they started healing themselves in the middle of battle, just like you can do? I think that would frustrate a lot of gamers in a lot of ways. Some games, like Dungeon Siege, are very linear -- you have to do things in a specific order. Might and Magic games went the other extreme -- you could go anywhere and do anything at any time. W&W falls in the middle -- flexibly linear. You have to go through the three towns, but within the town maps, you can do anything you want in any order. That's part of what makes it so appealing in many ways -- you are really in control. It's not better, or worse... just the way it is.

i wanted to say 2 things about that:

1. cet is not invincible becous spells dont work on him, it is just a slow fight that only 2 players can demage him.
but if cet could cast strong spells that will acualy hurt you (not burn , i mean spells like fire circule), and not healing spells that make the fight very long and boring.

2. in W&W you can go where you want in the town map, but it is very linear game becous as you can see you wont go firest to the crypt and only then to the toods vile becous of the quild quests, 1 quest will be in the toad vilege, 2 quest will be out side in the woods, and the finall quest will be in the crypt.
these is why you dont go firest t othe crypt and then to toad vilage becous you wast a lot of time.
but it is smart that they did the guild quests like that becaus in ishad nah there is a huge place and you dont know where to go firest(i did not know myself), and by the help of the guild quests i understud where i needed to go .

[Bungleau]

I think we're talking about the same thing.

The "unique weapon" method that's needed to kill Cet isn't new. In MM4-5, Worlds of Xeen, there was only one weapon that could kill Lord Xeen, and that was the sword of Xeen. Final combat consisted of "hit, trade, hit, trade, hit, trade, repeat" until he was toast. Now *THAT* was tedious [img]smile.gif[/img]

The challenge for a game like W&W is how to make the monsters challenging, but not too challenging.

In Arx Fatalis, I got up to the final monster. I've tackled him perhaps a dozen times. I've lost every time, and I've used every tactic I could think of (and find from walkthroughs and forums). He's too tough for me, and I've given up.

For a well-developed party, Cet is an easy final monster. I just equip two party members with the Mavin and Staff of Death, and let everyone attack. So what that only two out of six attacks can succeed? He can't damage me enough on the other four to make a difference.

Linear games force you to do things in a specific order. Dungeon Siege is far more linear that W&W because you can only go on one path through it (as far as I've seen). Arx Fatalis is a little less linear than DS, but more linear than W&W.

W&W does force you to proceed linearly through the towns, but you don't *have* to move linearly (is that a word?) through the map areas. You can take care of the toads before you enter the crypt if you want, and there's nothing stopping you.

Whether it's smart gameplay or not depends on what you're trying to do. If you're trying to complete every possible quest, there's no reason to hurry. If you're trying a speed game, you will bypass a lot of things.

MM6 would let you go from the beginning town of New Sorpigal straight to the DragonSands area, aptly named for all the critters who lived there. Many's the gamer who risked that because they knew there was a reward waiting.... the NWC dungeon and the stat bonuses. And many more is the party who set foot into Dragonsand and were immediately barbecued.

Imagine if you could go from Valeia to the Lost Sea area and tackle some desert crawlers... wouldn't a low-level party kill (literally [img]smile.gif[/img] ) for that kind of treasure that early? From "Wow, this short sword isn't rusty" to "A longsword +2? And plate + 1? Cool!".

Quests in a game are partly designed to encourage you along the path you need to go to complete the game. I like the fact that in W&W, you don't *have* to do them in order. Often, I don't. But it's a choice you and I have, every time we play the game.

The game designer's challenge: Make it hard enough to be interesting, but not too hard so that people give up. Make it easy enough to understand, but not too easy that it requires no thought.

I still remember playing MM1, many years ago. Many of the puzzles required you to think outside the game -- there was a magic square, mathematical problems, and a question whose answer couldn't be found in the game. I got a friend's wife to watch old Star Trek videos to get the answer to that one (Og's question, for the old-timers). Now *THAT* was fun, on many levels.

[dragon2005]

i got to say that W&W is a hard game in the mazes( the crypt , the castels, the pyrimed), the riddels and all, but not the fights.