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Old 03-28-2005, 08:02 PM   #1
Harkoliar
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but having acension and tactics installed.. right now im in TOB continuing where i left off with my bard and wild mage plus viconia (lover), keldorn, jan, jaheria.

anyway.. i never realised how cheesy the giants in TOB are. I mean my fully buffed character protected with so many elements and weapons get killed instantly with one giant who regenerates so quickly like a greater werewolf because for every HIT, he lowers your fire resistance and includes a fireball to boot. that its so unfair. resorting to cheesy tactics i discovered with a mild surprise, a legal way to kill those giants.

putting 4 wildmage lvl 1 spell with chaos shield active

so wildmage
cast level 1 wildmage spell to cast summon planatar
then cast anohter wildmage spell to cast limited wish
then tell the bloody genie to restore your spells
so lvl 1 spells restored, and so on [img]smile.gif[/img]

so i have a horde of planatars attacking two giants.

now to tell you how cheesy those bloody giants , two giants defeated 4 celestials. they are bloody strong i tell ya
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Old 03-28-2005, 08:25 PM   #2
Dace De'Briago
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ToB forum perchance?

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Old 03-28-2005, 08:41 PM   #3
Harkoliar
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<---- feeling very stupid at the moment [img]tongue.gif[/img]
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Old 03-28-2005, 09:55 PM   #4
whathuh
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Quote:
Originally posted by Harkoliar
<---- feeling very stupid at the moment
Yes, it is a TOB subject, but might I enlighten you that summoning more than one planetar is cheating, but not actually enforced by the game.

A somewhat less cheesy approach to the problem makes the fire giants greatest ability its liability. The fireshield it has on is easily used against it by another fireshield, but this time blue.

The trick:
Equip your mage with some stoneskins (the firegiants have 9 attacks per round you know)
Get all the protection items possible (gaxx, rop +2/3, seldarine). Thats +5 already to saves. You will want to have an automatic save, so at these levels, +5 will pretty much guarantee it.
Get over 100% resist fire.
Cast fireshield (blue).
Go up to a firegiant and hit it (or let it hit you), watch your framerate go bye-bye, and then catch up with a dead firegiant and a fully healed mage.

The trick is to keep your fire resistance up so the fireshield does not hurt you, as an insane -127 resist fireshield can do upwards of 50 damage.

This bit of cheese is very very cheesy in my opinion, but frankly is the only way to destroy these things safely. 9 freaking attacks per round and the regeneration ability of a hasted greater wolfwere is not exactly fair. Not to mention 22 strength. You can load up all you want on all your missile weapons and still not damage these guys. I had 20 cloudkills going at one point, and they were barely injured whenever I checked.

Another way to kill them is with a kensai->thief. Kai first with a katana (hindo has the most damage), then backstab. I'm pretty sure that along with a good strength bonus (dual with crom), fire giants do not have enough life to survive that.
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Old 03-28-2005, 10:06 PM   #5
Harkoliar
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i actually saw my framerate go bye bye when i had my blade bard with stoneskin, fire protection, spell turning, haste, improved invis, offense spin, fireshield.

plus equipped with the best uber weapons in the game.. i found it pretty funny heh.
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Old 03-28-2005, 10:08 PM   #6
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i do hope someone can move this to TOB forum btw.. i feel really stupid putting it in the wrong forum [img]tongue.gif[/img]
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Old 03-28-2005, 10:15 PM   #7
SixOfSpades
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The crux of the issue is, of course, by how much do they lower your Fire Resistance with each hit. Considering the author, I'd estimate it to be 25%, which doesn't leave much room for error if your maximum Fire Resist is 127%. And even then, you can only take them one at a time, and of course you're dead if any one of them manages to get in two hits.

There's also the issue of whether or not they're required to hit you at all. I messed with an Improved Fire Giant once, and it seemed to get off two area-of-effect Lower Fire Resistances before it was even in melee range.

Easier way to beat them: Don't install them.
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Old 03-28-2005, 10:26 PM   #8
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CTRL-Q reveals an Ac of -4, which should be easy for... well, anyone of your characters to hit at ToB level, especially with Energy Blades/Ranged. So ranged seems to be important, especially with the Fireshield. 190 HP isn't that bad for a good Thief to do, though I guess not every party has a ready-made Assassin.

But here's the kicker; No Magic Resistance, and their saves are low, at least for ToB! Slow those suckers down. 6 save for spells (the save for Slow). GM + Slow + Slow may just be what the doctor ordered. Slap on a GM, and Finger of Death suddenly becomes viable. No MR means that you don't have to bother with LR and the like, which means that it's realistic to use mass-death spells like triple ADHW on them (BTW, with a Greater Malison [which will hit, with no MR] on them, they'll have a save versus spells of 10. Triple ADHW means 20d8 * 3. Average roll of 80 damage per ADHW. A triple ADHW CC seems to be good to kill at least half of a group. Load up another CC with another Wizard, and that's the rest) Of course, this might be just speculation, and there might be a reason for why it doesn't work. Against groups, that should be fine. Against solo ones, tank with a mage with PfMW/Mirror Image, cast GM, and Finger of Death under he keels over. If they're immune to insta-death spells, then GM + Slow + Slow + ranged weapons could work, and abuse their large size.

Don't depend on just melee warriors in ToB. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Imp Fire Giants seem, without actually fighting them yet, to be exceptional melee warriors, but pussycats against magic.

Now, there's something I've been wondering: The correlation between Imp Haste and Regenerationis doubletime regen. What's the relationship between Slow and Regeneration? And what if the person already has Imp Haste on? The reason why the Fire Giants regen so quickly is because they seem to have 5 HP/second (I believe that's it; could someone else check the modded item that they use?) regeneration and Imp Haste, making them regen 10 HP/second.

[ 03-28-2005, 10:35 PM: Message edited by: Assassin ]
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Old 03-29-2005, 02:15 AM   #9
Leslie
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If you have a fighter/mage (dual or multi) he can whoop their asses very quickly.

Stoneskin, Prot. from Fire, saves vs spells. well below 0 (Potion of Invulnerabilty), PFMW

Now have some bad dualwilding combos and improve haste your char and he eats them for breakfast.

Solaufein with FOA and Angurvadal beat the whole bunch of them alone. The rest of the party were just chatting meanwhile.
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Old 03-29-2005, 07:40 AM   #10
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