Don't ask Don't tell

Chewbacca · 11-15-2002, 03:38 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2479777.stm

From BBC.com, randomly selected from google newsources search.
__________________________________________________ ______________________________

The United States Army has forced six linguists trained to speak Arabic to quit after they admitted that they were gay.
The decision comes when American military and intelligence services are suffering from an acute lack of translators and interpreters needed for their war on terror.

It's not a gay-rights issue. I'm arguing military proficiency issues - they're throwing out good, quality people

Alastair Gamble, dismissed soldier
The US military has a policy on homosexuality among its personnel - known as "don't ask, don't tell" - whereby homosexuals are not barred from serving as long as their sexual orientation remains private.

Three other linguists, two specialising in Korean and one in Mandarin Chinese, were also dismissed - one for being gay and two for being caught together when they should have been in separate rooms.

Recruitment drive

All nine soldiers were at the Defence Language Institute in Monterey, the US military's foremost language training centre, Steve Ralls, spokesman for the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, a group that defends gays in the military said.

Since 11 September Arabic speakers have been in demand

In the wake of the 11 September terror attacks in Washington and New York the US Government has been frantically trying to recruit more Arabic speakers.

"We face a drastic shortage of linguists, and the direct impact of Arabic speakers is a particular problem," said Donald R Hamilton, who told Congress of the need for more linguists as part of the National Commission on Terrorism.

Security at risk

One of the soldiers who was dismissed argued that the US military's hard line over homosexuals was damaging national security.

"It's not a gay-rights issue. I'm arguing military proficiency issues - they're throwing out good, quality people," said Alastair Gamble.

Mr Gamble said he was discharged alongside fellow army specialist Robert Hicks after the two were caught in Mr Gamble's room after curfew, during a surprise inspection.

Mr Gamble said that, keen to use their language skills as part of the battle against terrorism, they both subsequently applied for federal jobs, but were rejected.

A spokesman for the Army Training and Doctrine Command in Virginia, Harvey Perritt, confirmed the number of dismissals and said that they took place between October 2001 and September 2002.

He added that this year of the 516 Arabic specialist enrolled for training at Monterey, 365 graduated.

__________________________________________________ ______________________________

Hmmm...It seems to me prejudice sits higher than security as a priority for my nation. What do you think?

*
*edited to add confused smiley dude as well as source reference and link.

[ 11-19-2002, 01:02 AM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

Rokenn · 11-15-2002, 04:00 PM

Kind of like shooting yourself in the foot. Stupid, stupid move.

Bardan the Slayer · 11-15-2002, 04:28 PM

Nice to see that the US is still leading the world in equal rights for it's citizens, regardless of their sexual orientation.

johnny · 11-15-2002, 04:31 PM

If someone is good for the job, they should use him, regardless if he's gay, lesbian or has purple skin with yellow spots. This is NOT a very smart move.

Timber Loftis · 11-15-2002, 05:31 PM

Sexual orientation is not a federally protected class characteristic here, whereas religion, skin color, and disabilities are. Some states protect it, like AK, VT, HI. But, the fed in fact *prohibits* the recognition of sexual orientation as a protected class, otherwise there would be better federal (ERISA) benefits for gay folks in VT than in KY.

That said, Don't Ask Don't Tell (DADT) is the best means to deal with homosexuality in the army. Now, I have worked on this issue in state legislature, in fact on VT's Civil Union (permitting gay "marriage"), and I am proud to have done so. I think full benefits regardless of sex is an absolutely fagulous idea.

But, in the military things are different - and the military can kick you out for flat feet, poor eyesight (pilots), obessity, and lots of other things. Therefore, DADT is the best solution.

I may enjoy having a blow-up Mary Lou Retton doll at home, but I feel no compunction to tell anyone about it - even when pressed on the issue. The military translator jobs are great, respected, professional jobs. I feel the same way I do about a gay friend who "outed" himself at one of Chicago's premiere big firms. If you can't keep you mouth shut, you're not very professional now are you? If you absolutely MUST extol your honest life beliefs to everyone who presses you on the issue, take a hike!

My home life is my home life - I do not let it intrude at work. As a professional, my work life is my work life. I'll let my work intrude on my home life before I'll let home intrude on work. No matter when you catch me, I'm a lawyer. But if you catch me at work, I feel no need to assert or act in accordance with my personal private home-life beliefs, including the aforementioned Mary Lou Retton.

To people who can't maintain the required professionalism (meaning: what the job demands) in their careers, I say: grow up.

Larry_OHF · 11-15-2002, 05:48 PM

Chewbacca

Your post is obviously copy/pastes of an article you are reading, but you are not posting the reference nor providing a link for anyone to go see for themselves if you are or are not quoting the author the way he/she described it...that is plagarism and is illigal. Please provide links or references with your posts.

[ 11-15-2002, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ]

SirTristram · 11-15-2002, 08:19 PM

REally, Really stupid.

Megabot · 11-15-2002, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Larry_OHF:
Chewbacca

Your post is obviously copy/pastes of an article you are reading, but you are not posting the reference nor providing a link for anyone to go see for themselves if you are or are not quoting the author the way he/she described it...that is plagarism and is illigal. Please provide links or references with your posts.

Why on earth must he do that??? It is a copy and paste right and i have done tons i times here with no problems so why do you make a problem out of it Larry? It dont say that in the TOS anyway that you have to do that so please !

11-15-2002, 10:22 PM

When talking about pure beauracratic BS never use the two words "Military" and "Intelligence" in the same sentence [img]graemlins/jamesbond.gif[/img]

As Pro-Military as I am let me relate a lil story for you. First thing you need to know, at the time, the military rated its people on a 4.0 scale, like most schools in this part o the country.

They had this one guy who blew out a knee and could not meet the minimum time for running 1.5 miles in 13 minutes or less. This guy was in a technical field position so the furthest he would ever run would be about 150 feet. His evals were 4.0, he had just graduated top american student from a $65,000 training course (darn canuk beat him for top score) and had been given a $12,000 reenlistment bonus. The base commander kicked him out of the service even though Washington had issued the guy a waiver on the run portion of the PT and his direct superior had verified his importance to the Navy. The commanding officer's reasoning was, "I won't have anyone in MY Navy who cant run at least 1.5 miles!" end of story. Commanding officers have sole discreationary power over giving people the boot.

That guy was me in February of 1990. As big a dick as the guy was, it was really a favor to me in the long run [img]smile.gif[/img] I now make 4 times what I made annually in the service and no one ever shoots at me [img]smile.gif[/img]

Chewbacca · 11-16-2002, 12:03 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2479777.stm

Geez, I guess asking for a source politely is not an option? This is a major news story. I just happened to find a web-article via google on the BBC site.

Considering that I see cut and paste from other websites around these boards, I really hope that everyone who posts a news-bit in order to proliferate conversational banter is held the same high standards concerning alledged "plagerism" as I am.

11-15-2002, 03:38 PM	#1
Chewbacca Zartan Join Date: July 18, 2001 Location: America, On The Beautiful Earth Age: 50 Posts: 5,373	http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2479777.stm From BBC.com, randomly selected from google newsources search. __________________________________________________ ______________________________ The United States Army has forced six linguists trained to speak Arabic to quit after they admitted that they were gay. The decision comes when American military and intelligence services are suffering from an acute lack of translators and interpreters needed for their war on terror. It's not a gay-rights issue. I'm arguing military proficiency issues - they're throwing out good, quality people Alastair Gamble, dismissed soldier The US military has a policy on homosexuality among its personnel - known as "don't ask, don't tell" - whereby homosexuals are not barred from serving as long as their sexual orientation remains private. Three other linguists, two specialising in Korean and one in Mandarin Chinese, were also dismissed - one for being gay and two for being caught together when they should have been in separate rooms. Recruitment drive All nine soldiers were at the Defence Language Institute in Monterey, the US military's foremost language training centre, Steve Ralls, spokesman for the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, a group that defends gays in the military said. Since 11 September Arabic speakers have been in demand In the wake of the 11 September terror attacks in Washington and New York the US Government has been frantically trying to recruit more Arabic speakers. "We face a drastic shortage of linguists, and the direct impact of Arabic speakers is a particular problem," said Donald R Hamilton, who told Congress of the need for more linguists as part of the National Commission on Terrorism. Security at risk One of the soldiers who was dismissed argued that the US military's hard line over homosexuals was damaging national security. "It's not a gay-rights issue. I'm arguing military proficiency issues - they're throwing out good, quality people," said Alastair Gamble. Mr Gamble said he was discharged alongside fellow army specialist Robert Hicks after the two were caught in Mr Gamble's room after curfew, during a surprise inspection. Mr Gamble said that, keen to use their language skills as part of the battle against terrorism, they both subsequently applied for federal jobs, but were rejected. A spokesman for the Army Training and Doctrine Command in Virginia, Harvey Perritt, confirmed the number of dismissals and said that they took place between October 2001 and September 2002. He added that this year of the 516 Arabic specialist enrolled for training at Monterey, 365 graduated. __________________________________________________ ______________________________ Hmmm...It seems to me prejudice sits higher than security as a priority for my nation. What do you think? * *edited to add confused smiley dude as well as source reference and link. [ 11-19-2002, 01:02 AM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ] __________________ Support Local Music and Record Stores! Got Liberty?

11-15-2002, 04:00 PM	#2
Rokenn Galvatron Join Date: January 22, 2002 Location: california wine country Age: 60 Posts: 2,193	Kind of like shooting yourself in the foot. Stupid, stupid move. __________________ “This is an impressive crowd, the haves and the have mores. <br />Some people call you the elite. <br />I call you my base.”<br />~ George W. Bush (2000)

11-15-2002, 04:28 PM	#3
Bardan the Slayer Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: August 16, 2002 Location: Newcastle, England Age: 45 Posts: 699	Nice to see that the US is still leading the world in equal rights for it's citizens, regardless of their sexual orientation. __________________ <br />[url]\"http://www.the-silver-river.com\" target=\"_blank\">Admin and Co-Owner of The Silver River!</a><br />[url]\"http://www.the-silver-river.com/Photo%20Album/Reeka.html\" target=\"_blank\">SMNOOOOOOCH!</a> You know who it\'s meant for <img border=\"0\" title=\"\" alt=\"[Wink]\" src=\"wink.gif\" />

11-15-2002, 04:31 PM	#4
johnny 40th Level Warrior Join Date: April 15, 2002 Location: Utrecht The Netherlands Age: 58 Posts: 16,981	If someone is good for the job, they should use him, regardless if he's gay, lesbian or has purple skin with yellow spots. This is NOT a very smart move. __________________

11-15-2002, 05:31 PM	#5
Timber Loftis 40th Level Warrior Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 11,916	Sexual orientation is not a federally protected class characteristic here, whereas religion, skin color, and disabilities are. Some states protect it, like AK, VT, HI. But, the fed in fact prohibits the recognition of sexual orientation as a protected class, otherwise there would be better federal (ERISA) benefits for gay folks in VT than in KY. That said, Don't Ask Don't Tell (DADT) is the best means to deal with homosexuality in the army. Now, I have worked on this issue in state legislature, in fact on VT's Civil Union (permitting gay "marriage"), and I am proud to have done so. I think full benefits regardless of sex is an absolutely fagulous idea. But, in the military things are different - and the military can kick you out for flat feet, poor eyesight (pilots), obessity, and lots of other things. Therefore, DADT is the best solution. I may enjoy having a blow-up Mary Lou Retton doll at home, but I feel no compunction to tell anyone about it - even when pressed on the issue. The military translator jobs are great, respected, professional jobs. I feel the same way I do about a gay friend who "outed" himself at one of Chicago's premiere big firms. If you can't keep you mouth shut, you're not very professional now are you? If you absolutely MUST extol your honest life beliefs to everyone who presses you on the issue, take a hike! My home life is my home life - I do not let it intrude at work. As a professional, my work life is my work life. I'll let my work intrude on my home life before I'll let home intrude on work. No matter when you catch me, I'm a lawyer. But if you catch me at work, I feel no need to assert or act in accordance with my personal private home-life beliefs, including the aforementioned Mary Lou Retton. To people who can't maintain the required professionalism (meaning: what the job demands) in their careers, I say: grow up. __________________

11-15-2002, 05:48 PM	#6
Larry_OHF Ironworks Moderator Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Midlands, South Carolina Age: 48 Posts: 14,759	Chewbacca Your post is obviously copy/pastes of an article you are reading, but you are not posting the reference nor providing a link for anyone to go see for themselves if you are or are not quoting the author the way he/she described it...that is plagarism and is illigal. Please provide links or references with your posts. [ 11-15-2002, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ]

11-15-2002, 08:19 PM	#7
SirTristram Manshoon Join Date: November 2, 2002 Location: Calgary, Alberta Age: 37 Posts: 155	REally, Really stupid. __________________

11-15-2002, 10:22 PM	#9
MagiK Guest Posts: n/a	When talking about pure beauracratic BS never use the two words "Military" and "Intelligence" in the same sentence [img]graemlins/jamesbond.gif[/img] As Pro-Military as I am let me relate a lil story for you. First thing you need to know, at the time, the military rated its people on a 4.0 scale, like most schools in this part o the country. They had this one guy who blew out a knee and could not meet the minimum time for running 1.5 miles in 13 minutes or less. This guy was in a technical field position so the furthest he would ever run would be about 150 feet. His evals were 4.0, he had just graduated top american student from a $65,000 training course (darn canuk beat him for top score) and had been given a $12,000 reenlistment bonus. The base commander kicked him out of the service even though Washington had issued the guy a waiver on the run portion of the PT and his direct superior had verified his importance to the Navy. The commanding officer's reasoning was, "I won't have anyone in MY Navy who cant run at least 1.5 miles!" end of story. Commanding officers have sole discreationary power over giving people the boot. That guy was me in February of 1990. As big a dick as the guy was, it was really a favor to me in the long run [img]smile.gif[/img] I now make 4 times what I made annually in the service and no one ever shoots at me [img]smile.gif[/img]

11-16-2002, 12:03 AM	#10
Chewbacca Zartan Join Date: July 18, 2001 Location: America, On The Beautiful Earth Age: 50 Posts: 5,373	http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2479777.stm Geez, I guess asking for a source politely is not an option? This is a major news story. I just happened to find a web-article via google on the BBC site. Considering that I see cut and paste from other websites around these boards, I really hope that everyone who posts a news-bit in order to proliferate conversational banter is held the same high standards concerning alledged "plagerism" as I am.

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