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Old 07-11-2002, 07:04 PM   #91
johnny
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MagiK, do you believe everything you read ? Those may be written down laws, but they're trying very hard to bend them further and further. I see it in the streets often enough. What i was saying is that our jails aren't filled with drug users. Is cocaine considdered a soft drug ? I thought not, yet the police doesn't arrest you here for possessing it, and sometimes they don't even take it away from you. You don't get arrested for possession of heroin, they'll confiscate that however. And don't even start about hashies and marihuana, when they smell it, they just laugh and walk on. Of course, if you're a big dope pusher, you WILL get arrested, but you'll be out in a few months at most. Don't believe those stupid articles you've read, i KNOW what going on, and the way i see it with all this legalizing stuff, is that the government wants a piece of the cake too !

[ 07-11-2002, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: johnny ]
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Old 07-11-2002, 08:33 PM   #92
Chewbacca
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Have to disagree with the notion that pot has no benificial health or social effects. Lets look to the old civilizations of Africa for some wisdom. In some tribes, Ganja was used to settle disputes and to create a reasonable calm during heated discussions, This use is similiar to the modern Rasta viewpoint.

Another, far more radical application of ganja by certain African tribals was in the process of crime and punishment. Most taboo and criminal offenses were punished by having the perp. enter a small sealed tent and ganja was burned inside for as long as they were confined. The severity of the crime determined how long they stayyed in, but it could last for 48 hours or more if the crime as serious enough. The ratio of rehabilitaion by this method is a whopping 80% according to my source. Those are the kind of results that our penal system drools over.
My source for this info is in the book " The Emporer Wears No Cloths" by Jack Herer, I mentioned in a previous post. The tribes that used this method didnt use ganja recreationally at all, as that was taboo.

As far as health effects, I am more healthy and free of destructive patterns of behavior than ever in my life. The use of Ganja while relaxing, praying, and creating is a bonafide blessing in my life. My chronic migraine headaches have all but dissappeared and I am more relaxed at work, where I do not use the herb at all.

As I stated before Ive known personally hundreds of successful, happy, well adjusted citizens who are pot smokers. Ranging from doctors, housewives, navy seals, and clergy, and more, we all share an affinity with a plant that affirms life.

I wont say Ganja is for everbody because every individual is unique, but I do state that Adults in a land that is free deserve the right to choose. Its about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, or the having of happiness that comes from the pursuit. That is all.

I respect everyones right to choose to live how they see fit.
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Old 07-11-2002, 08:59 PM   #93
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i keep reading about letting the drug users kill themselves, weed out a lot of idiots, enriching the gene pool or voluntary sterilization.

gee, i think i heard this before, around 1937 in germany regarding other "social misfits"...
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Old 07-12-2002, 11:14 AM   #94
johnny
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Quote:
Originally posted by Madman-Rogovich:
johnny, you wouldnt? have you any idea how many people in the world die as a result of alcohol???
You gotta know when it's enough, if you don't, then you're stupid and need help.
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Old 07-12-2002, 11:27 AM   #95
MagiK
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Originally posted by johnny:
MagiK, do you believe everything you read ? Those may be written down laws, but they're trying very hard to bend them further and further. I see it in the streets often enough. What i was saying is that our jails aren't filled with drug users. Is cocaine considdered a soft drug ? I thought not, yet the police doesn't arrest you here for possessing it, and sometimes they don't even take it away from you. You don't get arrested for possession of heroin, they'll confiscate that however. And don't even start about hashies and marihuana, when they smell it, they just laugh and walk on. Of course, if you're a big dope pusher, you WILL get arrested, but you'll be out in a few months at most. Don't believe those stupid articles you've read, i KNOW what going on, and the way i see it with all this legalizing stuff, is that the government wants a piece of the cake too !

No I don't Johnny however, The facts that I got come from your own Government are a Public national announcement of policy. I have to conclude, that your country wishes the world to at least believe that ALL drugs are illegal in the netherlands. Why would they wish to lie? If they are not against drugs and are in fact proud of their free use, why try to delude the rest of the world? Why not proudly proclaim it to one and all?

Lastly no I don't believe everything I read..but if I have to take a governments word vs an obviously partisan persons word...Ill take the middle ground as something closer to the truth.
 
Old 07-12-2002, 11:36 AM   #96
johnny
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Well MagiK, in this case DON'T believe our governments word, they actually allowed the import of large amounts of cocaine to get to the big guys. Well, the coke is here, it's on the streets, on noone got arrested. Our government can be very weird when it comes to drugs. There was an investigation going on about this matter, but nobody comes up with any results. It's like i said, some of em might be in it themselves. I don't have proof of that, but i have my suspicions !
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Old 07-12-2002, 11:44 AM   #97
MagiK
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Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk:

Do cigarettes?
Do alcohol?
Do Pr0n?
They are all legal,
The postive benefits are that It will mean less ruined lives, more knowledge over what you are getting into when you take them, thus less people will use them and the reduction of crime.

These questions are irtrelevant. We are not talking about those items, we are discussing drugs (excluding alcohol and tobacco) Just because those detrimental items are permitted you are saying that we should make the list bigger? If you were logical at all you would rather work on getting this list smaller. And Pron or Porn does not belong on the list it is in a different catagory.

I hope that is a joke, since it is an very reactionary and poorly thought out view.
Again I think you are wrong. Yes I do mean it, yes it is well thought out, and no it is not reactionary. I see nothing wrong with letting addicts kill themselves off, and I see no problem with denying them publicly funded medical care to support their habbit.
 
Old 07-12-2002, 11:48 AM   #98
MagiK
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Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk:
Not Joe citizen…
TAX THE RICH!!!!
DO YOU HEAR ME!!!
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TAX THE EVERYDAY MAN!!!! JUST USE INCOME TAX ON HIGH EARNERS!!!!
AND MORE CORPERATE TAXES AND GREEN TAXES!!!!
That can easily generate vast sums of money for the U.S government to use on Socail engineering.

Besides $150million is a paltry sum, A tiny increase in corperate tax could easily generate it.
Dramnek you really do not understand economics, or how wealth works. And this is completely off topic so Im not going to bother with a list of why this idea doesnt work.
All I will say is that The Government of the Netherlands is spendng 150 MILLION dollars a year to try and cure addicts of their habbit. to which I say, why waste the tax payers money? There are more useful things (useful to the society) to do than to try and undo other peoples stupidity...like feeding the hungry and sheltering the homeless (dont know if Holland has any of these that are not addicts)
 
Old 07-12-2002, 11:59 AM   #99
MagiK
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Originally posted by johnny:
Well MagiK, in this case DON'T believe our governments word, they actually allowed the import of large amounts of cocaine to get to the big guys. Well, the coke is here, it's on the streets, on noone got arrested. Our government can be very weird when it comes to drugs. There was an investigation going on about this matter, but nobody comes up with any results. It's like i said, some of em might be in it themselves. I don't have proof of that, but i have my suspicions !
Ok I won't believe your governments reports...I will instead believe US intelligence reports which seem to support your governments position more than yours.

There are undoubtedly some bad elements in your government just as there are in ours, but on the whole all evidence points that Holland wants to reduce its populations drug addictions.

I realize that you very badly wish to be free to inject, inhale or use in some manner illicit drugs, but that doesnt mean all 15.7 million of the population of your country does. I also realize that prohibition of substances is a loosing prospect, so I am all for letting the druggies have as much as they can use and letting them ruin their own lives.

In the end, The substances you wish to abuse do nothing to enhance you condition, position or your intellect. I also agree with Chewie that there is scientific evidence that the THC component of Pot has thereputic value, however you do not need to smoke pot to get THC....at least you wouldnt if the government would allow the medical community to produce THC in other ways.

Im surprised that the health concious Vegetarians are not more vocal agaisnt the use of drugs and the ill effects of putting these things into your body.

Johnny Im not trying to tell you how to live your life, all Im doing is stating my position on the issue. So please don't take any of this as an attack. I will admit that I have lost more friends to Drug and alcohol abuse than I care to think about so I admit to being biased.
 
Old 07-12-2002, 12:12 PM   #100
Madman-Rogovich
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Quote:
Originally posted by johnny:
quote:
Originally posted by Madman-Rogovich:
johnny, you wouldnt? have you any idea how many people in the world die as a result of alcohol???
You gotta know when it's enough, if you don't, then you're stupid and need help.[/QUOTE]a bit of a generalisation but a good point never the less
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