Anti-Affirmative Action Bake Sale Shut Down

[Chewbacca]

Is it just me or does the price structure of the cookies show how Affirmative action critics tend to blow the issue way out of proportion. Well the pricing structure for women is in line with what they are paid dollar to dollar -vs- men. The pricing scheme for African-Americans and Hispanics is just shameful IMO.

Perhaps if these AA haters would focus on solving the real problems that create disparity amongst demographics, like how the drug war unfairly targets minorities and the pay gaps between men and women, we would have no need for AA as we would quicken down the road to equality.


Story

DALLAS -- Southern Methodist University officials shut down a bake sale Tuesday in which cookies were sold at different prices depending on the buyer's race and gender. The bake sale was organized by the Young Conservatives of Texas. Members said it was intended as a protest of affirmative action. The group raised $1.50 selling three cookies before the bake sale was shut down. A sign said white males had to pay $1 for a cookie. The price was 75 cents for white women, 50 cents for Hispanics and 25 cents for blacks. Members of the group said they meant no offense. They said they were only trying to exercise their freedom of speech to protest the use of race or gender as a factor in college admissions. Similar sales have been held at other U.S. colleges.

[Lord Lothar]

I personally think that the bake sale was a great idea to protest AA.

[Timber Loftis]

Yeah, who cares if they want to give both black students at SMU a discount on cookies? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

Perhaps if these AA haters would focus on solving the real problems that create disparity amongst demographics, like how the drug war unfairly targets minorities and the pay gaps between men and women, we would have no need for AA as we would quicken down the road to equality.

What are the real problems, because as far as AA goes the only problem I see is giving people a hand out based on skin color instead of ability. If you had to go have surgery would you rather get worked on by the less qualified doctor who was hired based on the color of his skin , or would you rather be worked on by the best doctor regardless of his color? How would you feel if you were going to a university and found out that if you were a minority that the school would give you a free ride because they have to meet a quota, but because you arent you have to shell out $30,000 just to get an education. The road to eqality isnt AA, it is leting people succeed or fail on their own merit , not the color of their skin.

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: What are the real problems, because as far as AA goes the only problem I see is giving people a hand out based on skin color instead of ability. If you had to go have surgery would you rather get worked on by the less qualified doctor who was hired based on the color of his skin , or would you rather be worked on by the best doctor regardless of his color? How would you feel if you were going to a university and found out that if you were a minority that the school would give you a free ride because they have to meet a quota, but because you arent you have to shell out $30,000 just to get an education. The road to eqality isnt AA, it is leting people succeed or fail on their own merit , not the color of their skin.

Actually AA gives people opportunity based on ability and use skin color as a factor on order to reflect the diverse nature of society. Its purpose is not to give hand-outs to unqualified people, but to prevent racists from denying the people they are prejudice against opportunity. Is there a better method to prevent racists from stopping the on-going creation of a diverse and intergrated society?

The idea that any or every minority that gets a position because of a race factor is less-qualified than any other applicant is wrong and unproven. In away it actually belittles the idea that minorities can be equal candidates.

Quotas have been illegal for a long time BTW, so no quota is going to prevent me from getting a job or into college. To be honest, I dont care how anybody else pays for their education and I applaude them for having and taking every opportunity to better themselves.

I beleive when one door closes, many may open, so I would rather congratulate someone elses success and continue on my own path of opportunity rather than waste my time playing the victim.

If you ask me, If AA does actually discriminate against me for my white skin, it does so not becasue I am white per se, but for a better society where racisim is openly discredited and eventually weeded out of our collective and individual mentality. That's a sacrifice worth having IMO.

[ 09-26-2003, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

[Timber Loftis]

Ah, but use of skin color as a factor belittles their ability, too, doesn't it?

My most recent thoughts on this were not exactly on-point, but I'll post them anyway, since AA has been brought up:
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assure you -- if I ever win the lottery I WILL be establishing a scholarship fund that only gives money to whites. It has been a long-time dream of mine. I wouldn't do it if I didn't feel all the other special-interest scholarships prejudiced whites, either.

I was privy to a conversation among black law student graduates one day. They all readily admitted that they did not study for the LSAT's, because they knew they'd get to go to a law school they wanted because they were black. I'm not misrepresenting their words, here. They also didn't study in law school much, because they knew they'd get a job no matter what -- black lawyers are a commodity law firms and state/federal governments search long and hard for. I'm not saying these people weren't capable of doing the work (the did study for and pass the color-blind Bar Exam) -- I'm pointing out they chose not to because they knew they had an easy road.

And, on a separate rant, after 40+ years of the Civil Rights Act encouraging governmental and private assistance to minorities, what really irked me is they felt entitled -- yes, ENTITLED, to such treatment. Why? They never suffered a plantation owner's whip. They never had to sit at the back of a bus or use a separate water fountain. They are no more ENTITLED to the repairations of their ancestors' suffering than I am LIABLE for the wrongdoings of my ancestors. The theory of levelling the playing field and correcting a historical imbalance is the ONLY one that ever gave an excuse to use affirmative action -- the repairations theory illogically and impermissibly assigns blame to those who did not do the wrong.

When my wife interviewed with the State's Attorney in Chicago, they asked her if she knew how hard they searched for qualified hispanic candidates. They go out of their way to hire them -- no matter what the law may say about the impermissibility of quotas. While I was borrowing like a bandit to pay for law school (including apartment rent, etc.), my wife was able to mitigate her borrowing by getting thousands of dollars a year from private organizations that just give money to latin law students (she's also more frugal than me -- but, that's another story).

Here's an interesting point. My wife is very light-skinned, as am I, as you'll see if you take a peek at Stealthy's. My wife dropped her latin last name when we married (due to an estranged relationship with her father). Theoretically, any children we have (nature willing), could completely ignore their latin heritage and completely integrate into white America. Should they? Well, I know come time for college scholarship applications, I'll certainly be encouraging them to check the "Latin/Hispanic" box because of the HUGE difference in benefits it makes. It'll be their decision, but minority status is POWERFUL.

So, the deck is stacked against my people. Until we wise up and just quit separating ANYBODY out by race, I'll be trying to help my group make it along. I didn't make these largely-meaningless black/white divisions in our society, but I'm forced to live in them. So, my white's-only scholarship may someday be a realized dream. And, I won't disguise the name or its purpose. Remember, I'm making a point -- and certainly never pass up the chance to PISS PEOPLE OFF.
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[ 09-26-2003, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

If you ask me, If AA does actually discriminate against me for my white skin, it does so not becasue I am white per se, but for a better society where racisim is openly discredited and eventually weeded out of our collective and individual mentality. That's a sacrifice worth having IMO.

It sounds like you feel guilty because of what color you are.People should not be judged based on some random accident of birth. If you dont get a job it should be because you arent qualified for it , not just because you are white. Not giving you a job because you are white doesnt make society better, it just makes you poor.

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: quote: If you ask me, If AA does actually discriminate against me for my white skin, it does so not because I am white per se, but for a better society where racism is openly discredited and eventually weeded out of our collective and individual mentality. That's a sacrifice worth having IMO.

It sounds like you feel guilty because of what color you are.People should not be judged based on some random accident of birth. If you don't get a job it should be because you aren't qualified for it , not just because you are white. Not giving you a job because you are white doesn't make society better, it just makes you poor. [/QUOTE]Your gonna have to do better than that...LOL thats laughable...I feel guilty because of what color I am because I prefer safeguards against racism rather than the lack of them.

Funny as it is, due to my fathers adoption, and the loss of the records concerning his birth, I really only know 1/2 of what "race" I am other than human, and thats 1/4 Greek, 1/4 German.
I actually got beat up once for being a "spic" because evidently I have features that suggest Hispanic or Greek depending on who you ask. As a child I endured racial slurs usually geared towards Asians for my somewhat slanted eyes and dark hair.

If I were to feel guilty because of my race, its because I belong to a race(HUMAN) that is hateful and violent to one another because of superficial differences. I would rather feel proud of the progress my race (HUMAN) is making to become a better society because of things like AA.

Me not getting a job because another candidate got it in a reflection of the diverse society we live in is no problem to me. No guilt here about that.

If AA is the temporary cost for giving no quarter and no budge-room to bigots to practice their evil ways, I am actually rich in a way that no money can make me and I feel quite the opposite of guilt for helping continue to make an open diverse society.


Show me proof that racism and racial disparity is truly history and I will proclaim success for diversity and call for the end of AA.

Until then tell me another way to prevent racist bosses from making the opposite kind of hiring practice based on skin color: the bigoted, segregated kind, and I will call for an end to AA.

[Timber Loftis]

Until then tell me another way to prevent racist bosses from making the opposite kind of hiring practice based on skin color: the bigoted, segregated kind, and I will call for an end to AA.

In all honesty, the only people I've ever known to use a skin color preference in hiring were minorities. I would never hear it, of course, but being a minority my wife gets to hear it all the time. You would be appalled at the number of minority bosses/mentors/professors she's had who remind her of her duty to help promote minorities. [img]graemlins/dontknowaboutyou.gif[/img]

Of course, since you can't tell she's a minority (people usually guess she's Greek or Italian or Russian), we also get embarrasing situations where we're in the company of white folks who talk about hispanics in a derrogatory way. We usually let them wallow in their ignorance because the excuses they make when you inform them of what they're doing are worse than the insults.

Anyway, prejudice exists on both sides and always will -- but it is infinitely rarer today than it was in the 50's.

Note that the Supreme Court's recent AA case speculated that AA may no longer be needed in the future -- and guessed at 25 years from now.

Me not getting a job because another candidate got it in a reflection of the diverse society we live in is no problem to me. No guilt here about that.

Well, what if you are more qualified? I can tell you undeniably that my wife's office hired less-qualified minority candidates. Look at my examples above -- those students who didn't try for s**t in law school, banking on the race card, obviously have horrible records. Now, in Chicago the State's Attorneys only hire about 1 in every 15 people they interview. I cannot possibly imagine there were not better candidates -- they just happened to be white.

[ 09-26-2003, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Ah, but use of skin color as a factor belittles their ability, too, doesn't it?

Potentially, but that's what is called a trade-off. It differs greatly from the idea that less-qualified people are getting jobs based on skin color in the idea that using race as a factor helps gaurantee a diverse workforce/student body under the auspice that bigotry wont be tolerated from beginning to end. So if someone feels beltittled because race was used as a factor, they can take solace in that. It's a matter of perception IMO.

I bet the black law student who does study and does excel on all tests gets the job over the slack-jawed yokels who were bragging about not studing and getting a free ride. I also bet there are black students who know that and use it to their advantage. Every system has its flaws and exploitations, one must weigh these flaws against the potential benifits.