Alabama judge sought Supreme Court OK to keep monument

[James G.]

ASSOCIATED PRESS

MONTGOMERY, Ala., Aug. 20 — The Supreme Court refused Wednesday to block the removal of a Ten Commandments monument from an Alabama judicial building, rejecting a last-minute appeal from the judge who installed the display. The justices said they would not be drawn, at least for now, into a dispute over whether the monument violates the Constitution’s ban on government promotion of religion.






Should the Ten Commandments monument be removed from government property?

Yes
No
Can't decide







Should the Ten Commandments monument be removed from government property?
* 32722 responses
Yes
33%
No
64%
Can't decide
2%


THE HIGH COURT was Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore’s last hope to avoid a federal judge’s midnight deadline to remove the display. It was unclear if Moore would comply. Other state officials have said the monument would be removed.
Moore’s lawyers told justices in a filing that Moore should be allowed to “establish justice by acknowledging the guidance and favor of Almighty God, placed upon him by his oath of office and the Constitution of Alabama.”
Moore installed the 5,300-pound stone monument in the rotunda of the judicial building two years ago after being elected chief justice amid publicity of his support of the Ten Commandments.
The Supreme Court has never ruled on the constitutionality of such indoor and outdoor government displays. In 1980, the court barred Ten Commandments from classroom walls in public schools.

HIGH COURT’S RULING EXPECTED
The justices’ refusal to intervene was not a surprise. An appeals court had twice refused to give Moore a stay.
“It’s not like somebody’s about to face execution, if the court doesn’t enter a stay the person will be dead and the appeal will be moot,” said David Frederick, a Washington attorney who specializes in Supreme Court practice. “If the Supreme Court were to decide it’s constitutional, it can always be put back.”
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Moore asked the high court to block the removal of the monument from the state judicial building Wednesday as supporters held a candlelight vigil to begin a round-the-clock protest.
Alabama Attorney General Bill Pryor said he expected the stone display to be out of the building “very soon” in compliance with court orders. But Moore, who was turned back twice Tuesday by a federal appeals panel, filed a motion Wednesday asking the Supreme Court to stay the orders by the end of the day.
Moore’s supporters held a candlelight vigil just after midnight, with nine pastors leading about 30 worshipers from across the country in prayer.
“Even if they should remove this monument — and God forbid they do — they’ll never be able to remove it from our hearts,” said the Rev. Greg Dixon of Indianapolis Baptist Temple.

‘WE MUST ACKNOWLEDGE GOD’
Moore reiterated his refusal to move the 5,300-pound monument by the deadline, set by a federal judge, of midnight Wednesday.
“This case is not about a monument. It’s not about politics or religion. It’s about the acknowledgment of God,” he said on CBS’s “Early Show.”

Why is this happening all around the U.S.? Everywhere you turn someone wants to limit the Ten Commandmentsposted on monuments to dust.
I say spend your energy and time to create your own in good will and spirit. This spot certainly wans't an eyesore and I think it's just about people being mean to each other. [img]graemlins/2cents.gif[/img]

James

[Chewbacca]

I think making sure that we have sound knowledge about the seperation of church and state in America is paramount to making an informed opinion about this issue.

Here is a quiz on the topic to test everyones knowledge.

[ 08-20-2003, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

[James G.]

I scored Under 10 and feeling it. ouch.

Having been to many civil war sites and living estates I do beleive that many of our forefathers were founded in Christian beliefs and had backrounds of such and therefore held words to a minumum. But this statement bothers me ;

"The justices said they would not be drawn, at least for now, into a dispute over whether the monument violates the Constitution’s ban on government promotion of religion."

Im not going to work to make a living again then.. [img]smile.gif[/img] I think I might work, I'm not sure.

[True_Moose]

I must say, I don't really mind. I personally am not of the Christian faith, and the fact that the commandments are there doesn't offend me. The problem really comes with Mr Moore's comments. I don't believe that we must acknowledge the favor of any Almighty God, in fact it says so right in the Constitution.

I don't think that the monuments really need to be removed, as they really don't affect the judicial process or anything related to it. People need to get their panties in a knot about something else. But Mr Moore's arguments, from my point of view, and pardonnez mon Francais, suck. Like, c'mon, what's this:

“This case is not about a monument. It’s not about politics or religion. It’s about the acknowledgment of God,”

Um, doesn't the acknowledgment of a deity qualify as a religious statement? I don't think it matters, but Moore really is rubbing me the wrong way on this.

As for my opinion: I'd like the monuments to stay. But, since the Supreme Court has ruled on this, I'm going to accept and live by their decision. Isn't Moore (a Justice?) supposed to support the legal process? Would he refuse to acknowledge a higher court ruling if he made an error? I don't know...

And welcome to the boards, James! [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img]

[john]

Oh my god I got 8!!

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

I wonder if you would be so quick to rush to judge Moore's defence if it wasnt a christian display. What would your reaction be if he had erected a huge basalt pentagram and put up Alestair Crowleys famouse quote, "Do what thou will, shall be the whole of the law". Why should people have christan values forced on them?? Why could our rich,slave owning,gun toteing, Christian forefathers see the wisdom in not forceing religion onto others, but modern day people cant seem to grasp it. Let me give a few examples of what happens when you let politics and religion mix. You get witch burnings,inquisitions,selling of "indulgences",public stoneings,forced amputations,public lashings and you also get to slap people with the added legal charge of heresy. If I want to see the 10 commandments I will rent the video. When I go to court it is to pay my speeding ticked and go, NOT have some redneck judge force jesus down my throat.

[Luvian]

I got 10, and i'm not even American. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Timber Loftis]

Very informative site there. It's interesting that it was early Presidents who were not Christian.

Here's a thought I had on the topic: not establishing a religion would also mean not establishing atheism or agnosticism, would it not?

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Very informative site there. It's interesting that it was early Presidents who were not Christian. Here's a thought I had on the topic: not establishing a religion would also mean not establishing atheism or agnosticism, would it not?

Is about not establishing anything as far as establishing by government goes.
It seems the issue is quite more complex the more I read about it.

This Alabama judge in this case, the Supreme court Chief Justice; a servant of government if we ever ever ever have one, thinks that government should establish God official, and with a monument to boot. His own words and history do plenty to support this opinion.

So it's not a matter of whether or not religious artwork should coexists with secular in our public life. It is a matter of God's existence established.

80 years ago he coulda gotten away with it, maybe, as another case in Pennsylvania has illustrated.
Story

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Interesting quiz, Chewbacca. I managed to score 13.

Hunter - Exactly how is the public display of the Ten Commandments equivalent to "having Jesus shoved down your throat"? I understand you may find the display offensive, just as you correctly pointed out that I would find the public display of the pentagram offensive - but that still doesn't equivicate to having the religion "forced" on you...nor does it "establish a national religion".

I might object to the pentagram, but I could not claim it is un-Constitutional because 1) it is restricted to one building in a state I don't live in, and 2) there is no "national movement" to have the pentagram and "Do what that will, shall be the whole law" established as a national religion or to replace the existing law system.


The fact is that neither display would effectively promote the establishment of a national religion (which is the primary focus of the First Amendment), BUT, forcing those displays to be removed certainly COULD be considered "prohibiting free expression of religion".