Yet more questions from a novice.....

[Dave B.]

Forgive me Father but it has been 6 months since my last confession.

Since I first installed W&W last Summer and navigated the perils of running the program under XP, thanks many to Packrat and WillowIX, I've been meaning to re-start the adventure proper. Having done so I have a couple of questions.

Firstly, in the Serpent Temple I'm having problems navigating the narrow underwater passage under the Holding Pens near the start of the complex. No amount of wriggling about seems to get me up that narrow passage and as for the so called air-pocket, even though my head is clearly out of the water I'm still drowning. From what I've read there should be a chest with an idol which allows me to access a book in the Library which gives me the responses to the Naga's questions later on. I know what the answers are, so I could byepass it, but I would prefer to do it the right way.

Secondly, if you are going to change class when is the best time to do so? Is there a point when continuing to gain experiance and ability means that the Law of Diminishing Returns sets in? I spent hours rolling to get characters with the best stats possible ie 80+ points in total across the 8 abilities so I'm already off to a good start. Also my warrior has a sword skill of 5 do I continue piling on the points or should I look to improving other skills?

Any advice would be gratefully appreciated.

[Olli Kalma]

First of all... HOW did you manage without W&W over 6 months?!!?!??!

I had problems yesterday in there underwater thing...
The way to air-pocket is so narrow that if you put your Oophz to lead your group, you'll get stucked!

I have rogue ( ratling ) among my party, and when I put him to active character, he leaded all other pass the narrow path...

And changing your class... It's so difficult thing...
If you are wizard, keep going until you'll get 7th level stone spells ( hard to get later ).

But when you have gained all skills you can for that class, you can change it if you want. But think what you want to do next? if you want to learn Moon magic, there's no use to train into Paladin, you know what I mean...

Check role changes tips from Best Tips! post.

And keep going !

P.s. Don't train for several weapon at same character.
Swords are best in the game... no use to have Axe skill 7, dagger 5, pole&staff 4 and mace 6, if you can train your sword and seacond weapon skill into 15! And if you have death strike and... it's more useful than many weapons.

[Dandad]

It's not much help or consolation but I had exactly the same difficulty with the air pocket. Maybe its an inaccuracy in the game?

As for getting through the passage I had similar problems but then realised that I could not afford to just ignore the fish. They were what was stopping me from getting through. After a reload, I killed everything in front of me and getting through was not a problem.

Dandad

[macoati]

Olli Kalma has basically said what you need to do for the air pocket and the rest. The rule of thumb here (typo) is to have your smallest character in the lead. In other words, make sure they are the one selected and you should have no problems.

Good luck! (sheesh...six months??? I think I'd go blind... oh, wait, that's something else, right?)

[ 01-22-2003, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: macoati ]

[Bungleau]

Welcome back, Dave B! Hope things are going well for you... aside from these minor issues.

That water passage is a real pain. If you're not lined up just right, you're stuck... for good. It does help to have your smallest character go in first (yet another advantage of a pixie), but I've had a number of other characters get stuck as well. Sometimes you can switch side-to-side to wriggle through, but not always. Sometimes backing in (instead of walking forward) helps to get past as well.

Cursing loudly and sacrificing a small macintosh has not been proven to facilitate the process, although many report that they feel better afterwards.

As for changing class, it's whenever you're ready. For me, I like to change somewhere around level 11 to 14 in general. There are some conditions: spellcasters need to get their level 7 spells before switching, and rangers need to get fletchery (guild level 5, so after stout mines at the earliest). Warriors I switch ASAP (to barbarian, preferably).

But everyone's play style is different, and they all work. I can tell you that with my style, my characters are usually maxed out on stats and preferred skills by the end of the game.

[LiOnHe@rT]

haha, i still remember the time when i was pressing the jump, run and directional buttons all at the same time to try and get out, and all of a sudden i juz FLEW out of the water and went SMACK! into the wall in front.....
if u wana change ur class, make sure u learn all the spells that class specialises in, unless it's a fighting class. To change from a fighting class into something else, try and level up as much as possible 1st, the hit points matters!
ALSO, those piranhas in the serpent temple holds are a breeze to kill, juz swipe at them a couple of times and watch their bodies decompose away......

[Wyvern]

Welcome back, Dave B!!! (oh, that handle is so ripe for some new rumors )

You've gotten a lot of good advice, anything I could add would be rather redundant. Smallest character in the lead - twist, run, jump, forward - hopefully that will get you through! IF not, do not worry. The book is quoted in the BEST TIPS file so you're not up a creek. The game doesn't care whether or not you actually got/read the book as long as you know what to say when doing the ritual!

This game has a very flexible system for character development. There is no harm and often great benefit to changing class (unlike Wiz 8). It is best with magic users to get all the spells you want in the spells they are currently learning before changing class. That saves frustration later. The Best Tips thread has some useful information on all of that too!

I think it is worth while bumping sword skill up to 15. Knives and staves are the other weapons also worth improving. The game really does not favor the other weapons. I don't even bother with them anymore.

Have fun!!

[Dave B.]

Thanks for all the advice, I'll re-organise my party and put the pixie and/or ratling in front and have another bash at wiggling and jiggling.

I've had a look at some of the other areas of this Forum and from what I can see there is not really a wrong way of playing the game, only ways to make it more interesting/difficult.

[Bungleau]

Sword skill to 15, Wyv? I am really impressed -- I thought 14 was the highest you could go, and only then if you were enlightened... Guess you've found a couple more things to edit in the savegames, huh?

As for weapons, I agree. Sword, dagger, and staff are the only really useful weapons throughout the whole game. Dagger is especially nice because most of your second-hand weapons (main gauche, wakizashi, etc.) are actually dagger weapons. So a 12 in sword (or 15 [img]tongue.gif[/img] ) but a 2 in dagger means your first blow slices the skin off an orange, while the follow-up blow crushes it and makes orange juice.

I don't bother with axe, mace, bow, thrown, or anything else until I have no other place to put my skill points (or no other skill to train).

[Olli Kalma]

Originally posted by Bungleau: Sword skill to 15, Wyv?...Guess you've found a couple more things to edit in the savegames, huh? most of your second-hand weapons (main gauche, wakizashi, etc.) are actually dagger weapons.

Öhöm... [img]smile.gif[/img] Hih!
Well Wyvern just pointed into my post, I said: no use to have Axe skill 7, dagger 5, pole&staff 4 and mace 6, if you can train your sword and seacond weapon skill into 15!

It was just an example... I don't have sword skill 15!... but the idea was that...

And Wakizashi? you mean that little katana 2nd hand weapon? That's sword skill too...
I had 2 warrior's that didn't know dagger skill and still hacked up with Katana and Wakizashi... So I think it's 2nd hand weapon, sword skill...

I have rogue, who don't know 2nd hand weapon skill yet, and he's using dagger.
So to maxim his damage I use Throwing skill meanwhile and equip with
those Kiss of ??? darts witch can bought from Valeia Pawn shop's membersarea...
with some blessing it does over 15 damage, and that's single kill to those serpent temples servant's... They are dead before they get chance to poison you.

( HINT! change your creature spawning into often and wander around couple of hours and get much experience in Serpent Temple... Dart's usefull when you don't have mana anymore to cast Elemental Blast or Lightning... )