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Old 10-24-2002, 02:48 PM   #11
Attalus
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Quote:
Originally posted by skywalker:
Seems there has been talk about how atheists can not have moral conviction because they have no higher power to keep them honest and can't be trusted. Mark
I'm with MagiK on this one, Mark, I saw no one one IR's thread that said anything remotely like that. What I said was that the good impulses of atheists and believers alike come from the same Source, whether they like it or not, and that none of your quotes have addressed that.

Oh, and, Magik, there is another Einstein quote, "I do not believe in a personal God."

[ 10-24-2002, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: Attalus ]
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Old 10-24-2002, 02:49 PM   #12
Eisenschwarz
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sazerac:
To my mind, organized religion is like organized crime or organized labor. The reason that those institutions are organized are not for the benefit of the individual, or at the very least, rarely so.

-Sazerac[/QB]
I believe itís to do with the cementing of the powers of the ruling class to a certain extent, since if you look back through history,
While you have had renegades who have gone against the establishment, the vast majority of organised religion tends to support the current ideas and such of the ruling class, thus making itself mostly an ideological construct which can of course take on a life in itís own right.
Since itís thrown in its lot with the ruling class, it makes sense to support it against any ideas or changes that will threaten its power base.
 
Old 10-24-2002, 03:21 PM   #13
Epona
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Bardan, I liked your post and largely agree with it.

I'm quite a moral person, but my morals are based on a sense of social responsibility and have nothing to do with religion - I'm an atheist.

Don't forget that humanity managed to survive and develop before organised religion or monotheism existed - we wouldn't be here now if everyone had been bashing each others heads in through not having any moral code - which I would argue is necessary in order for any human society to survive, after all we don't have warm fur coats and are rather soft and squishy - we need to look after each other. Survival for humans is dependent on co-operation which does not need religion or spirituality, but a sense of why society is important.
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Old 10-24-2002, 03:21 PM   #14
LordKathen
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I belong to a local Free Thought Society group here in Tri-Cities, WA, and we talk about these issues all the time. I believe Darwin's theory of evolution, not that it matters to you. I think its ironic that MOST of the people who judge anybody are christians. I am a faithful husband and loving father of 3 going on 4, and consider myself a moral person my own terms, being, not to harm or impose myself to anyone anywhere. I probly do not fall into the social morals that have evolved through christian or religious beliefs. Like this forum for example (I may be about to start a hot debate here), Is a fantasy games site. A devout christian I know says that these games are recognising the evil side of the line, and he quoted some verse saying that he who recognises the evil in society, shall feel the wrath of god. And what about halloween? Do you realise that It Is the only holiday recognised by most religions and originates from an Irish Druidic holiday (pagan), later to be modified by Roman Catholics after they conqured the Druids, then comercialised by Americans to be accepted by christians? Sounds like alot of hipocracy to me, not that it matters to you.
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Old 10-24-2002, 03:27 PM   #15
MagiK
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Quote:
Originally posted by Epona:
Bardan, I liked your post and largely agree with it.

I'm quite a moral person, but my morals are based on a sense of social responsibility and have nothing to do with religion - I'm an atheist.

Don't forget that humanity managed to survive and develop before organised religion or monotheism existed - we wouldn't be here now if everyone had been bashing each others heads in through not having any moral code - which I would argue is necessary in order for any human society to survive, after all we don't have warm fur coats and are rather soft and squishy - we need to look after each other. Survival for humans is dependent on co-operation which does not need religion or spirituality, but a sense of why society is important.
I think some of us are more delightfully soft and squishy than others [img]smile.gif[/img]
 
Old 10-24-2002, 03:59 PM   #16
Ar-Cunin
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Quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
"God Does not play dice with the Universe" Albert Einstein
And the responce:

"Yes he does - and he cheats too" - Niels Bohr
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Old 10-24-2002, 04:06 PM   #17
Sazerac
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Quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
I think some of us are more delightfully soft and squishy than others [img]smile.gif[/img]
Why, Epona, I do believe MagiK is flirting! [img]graemlins/showoff.gif[/img]

-Sazerac
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Old 10-24-2002, 04:14 PM   #18
Horatio
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sazerac:
quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
I think some of us are more delightfully soft and squishy than others [img]smile.gif[/img]
Why, Epona, I do believe MagiK is flirting! [img]graemlins/showoff.gif[/img]

-Sazerac
[/QUOTE]Dear god...
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Old 10-24-2002, 04:32 PM   #19
Absynthe
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originally posted by Magik:
Einstein was an atheist? I thnk not, he had another quote to his credit that you may have missed. "God Does not play dice with the Universe" Uttered in a discussion about Quantum physics. Are there other possible paradoxes in your quotes? thats just one that I saw right off.

Originally posted by Attalus:
I'm with MagiK on this one, Mark, I saw no one one IR's thread that said anything remotely like that. What I said was that the good impulses of atheists and believers alike come from the same Source, whether they like it or not, and that none of your quotes have addressed that.

Oh, and, Magik, there is another Einstein quote, "I do not believe in a personal God."

Congratulations, boys! Together you make a complete wit.
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Old 10-24-2002, 04:56 PM   #20
Yorick
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Einstein was a Jew who left Nazi Germany for the United States. This was part of his motivation ifor his part is helping the creation of the atomic bomb.

His comment doesn't conflict with Judaism or Christianity. I'd agree with him actually. Mark me down as saying that too.

I'm certainly no athiest.

Charles Darwin was also not an athiest. He believed God breathed life into the earth, but radically theorised as to what happened after that moment.
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