AD&D3 - Answer to Ramon

[Moiraine]

Hi Ramon,
I may be late, but I always keep my promises, so ...

Me and my family are currently level 3, so I have no opinion as yet about AD&D with high level characters.
But I can give you my point of view, which is more based on fun and roleplaying than purely technical.

1) Purely technical question - nothing more to add.

2) Skills. The skills add A LOT to the game !
AD&D3 seems to have borrowed a lot of good ideas from others RPGs. I used to play another RPG called Rolemaster, which is based only on skills. With Rolemaster, there really are a huge lot of these (even 'cooking' was a skill !), the principle being that when you gain a level, you gain skill points to spend in any skills you choose. No skill is forbiden to a character, but the cost of a 5% gain in one skill depends on your character class : for example, a gain of 5% in plate armor will cost you 1 skill point if you are a fighter and 8 skill points if you are a mage.
They have included this idea in AD&D 3, which is great. The point is, if you play a level 4 thief and I play another, mine and yours will be different, because mine will be much better at stealing techniques, and yours will be better at acrobatic skills, for example. You don't get the feeling to play a standard character anymore. What we could call (as in Rolemaster) 'secondary' skills, like a craft for example, can add a lot to the fun of roleplaying !

3) Multiclassing. The AD&D3 principle is that you don't gain fighter levels or mage levels, but you gain 'non specific' levels. You can be a pure fighter until level 3, then decide to spend your next level as a mage level, then spend 2 more fighter levels, then spend another level as a thief level, then again a mage level. Every 'class' level gives you specific bonuses, which you add to your current bonuses. Am I clear, or do you want an example ?
And, there is no level 20 limitation, only the fact that the existing books don't cover levels higher than 20, which will be treated in future books.

4) Improving attribute score. This is a secondary feature, since you can only improve one point of one attribute every 4 levels, but it definitely is in the line of allowing more personalized characters.

5) Translation to CRPGs. I really have no idea at the moment.

And ... I would add, AD&D3 makes a lot of characters much more fun to play. Take the Cleric, for example : he is no more only a 'cure bag'. First, he chooses his God, and this God is related to several Domains. The Cleric chooses two Domains among those related to his God, and his God gives him a specific Domain spell per level, plus a special ability. My Cleric has chosen Luck and Travel as his Domains, and Luck gives him the ability to reroll one dice roll once per day ! (DMs don't like that AT ALL !). And the Cleric can turn/destroy undead if he is Good, or dominate undead if he is Evil. And the Cleric may memorize every spell he chooses, since he has the ability to instantly cast any Cure spell of the same level or lower instead of any memorized spell.
Similar improvements exist for every character class. Some I know better than others. A Rogue, for example, gains a special Feat (e.g. ability) at every level. At level 2, the Rogue gains the Evasion feat, which means that any successful Reflex saving throw for half-damage results in no damage at all. At level 6, a Rogue can no longer be flanked (except, of course, by another Rogue of higher level ...). And so on. So new feats result in a new interest at every level.

Another thing : the Difficulty Class. The principle is that any action you attempt is not failed or successful as an absolute, but depends on the context. It is 'me against you'. Your skill with your bonuses against the DC of the attempt. For example, a Rogue attempts to pick a lock. If the lock has been made by a Master Rogue, the DC raises. If you have the best set of lockpicks ever, you have a bonus. If you are drunk, you have a malus. And so on. So the DM calculates privately the DC by taking the base DC and adding all the bonuses and maluses of the action you attempt, and you add all your bonuses and maluses of your skill, and then you roll dices. If your roll is higher than the DC (and only the DM knows the DC), you are successful. There is a margin in which you are at 'near success' and can try again. Otherwise, you fail.
This system gives a lot of help to the DM in setting the DC of an action, but some bonuses and maluses are still submitted to his appreciation.

I enjoy AD&D3 rules a great deal, I think they have removed a great deal of the drawbacks of the previous AD&D revisions.

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[Memnoch]

Wow! Thanks for taking the time to post this for everyone, Moiraine.

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Memnoch - Custodian of the Order of the Holy Flame

[Ramon de Ramon y Ramon]

Salut Moiraine !

Your reply my have been late, but it is most certainly thorough !

Thank you very much, you are the best.

I have now read it twice, but it is so much input that I need some time to decide if and what to ask.

Well, one question I do already have: one thing I like about the 2nd ed. rules is the complex armour class system, that each armour type has actual various armour classes depending on the weapon type you use against it. Is that preserved in the new Dc system ?

And I am still a bit confused with regard to the actual in-game relevance of some of the new skills I have read about, like for instance bookbinding and alike.

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So long !


R³

[WOLFGIR]

MOIRAINE
You have the patience I´m looking forward to gain, you described the essantials I was trying to give back at the older thread with well things you write on a tissue substance

Well there is also one more thing to add, and well I will tey to take my time on this

PRESTIGE CLASSES

Well a prestige class doesn´t really work as a multiclass or a kit like in BG2, but is like another class like fighter but with this you "forsake" one level to gain a prestige class level. These lvls doesn´t count in multiclass terms no XP losses. A prestige class requires some prerequisits (pew) to be met before you can have it. The prestige classes described in the Dungeon master guide are:
Arcane Archer
An archer that has the power of both being able to shoot the bow (duh) and also cast arcane spells at least to lvl 1. Compare it to the Amazone in Diablo2, different arrow shots and such.
Assasin
Well a sneaky bugger that can do cripple attacks as well as death attack as well as sneak attacks (the new name for backstabbing) Though an assasin must be of evil alignment thay are hreat for the Dm to throw in if your players are getting to cocky..
Blackguard
An evil doer, the black knigt and also if Paladin, Antipaladin.
This is the great villian, the epitome of evil bla bla he´s so cool bla bla hehe well he is!
Dwarven Defender
Well a dwarven warriors dream. These guys are better than walls, sturdy fighters that are excellent on standing their ground.
Loremaster
Something for mages, taken from Greyhawk. Gets more spells and such. Can also do some nice little tricks.
Shadowdancer
The rouge class extra class for survival and despair for the DM, these guys uses any shadows to do tricks like shadow door, hide in plain site and such. Have to be a stealthy dude with a nice act..

Well these classes are described, but you can get some more at www.wizards.com like Harper prestige class. I have that one if anyone is interested in PDF format, ready to mail!

Most prestige classes requires that you have choosen some "feats" a way o make your character stronger better and to have a greater difference between characters of the same class. They´re like high-power skills.
Most characters have to be at least lvl 7 or more before they can choose to have a prestige class.

SKills, a big debate, well I have to agree with Moiraine, it gives the game a new way to be played, you can´t simply stumble out in the big woods carring a Platemail and a sword and hope for the best if you don´t have the right skills. It also brings more character developement and better roleplaying because you can use more skills to "beat" your opponents than just by waiting for the right time to kill ém all!!

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::HOWLING WOLFGIR THE MAD WOLF::

[This message has been edited by WOLFGIR (edited 03-06-2001).]

[Ramon de Ramon y Ramon]

Thanks, Wolfgir, that was another biggie.

And, matter of fact, prestige classes was something I had not heard about at all before your post.

(Psst, come back and edit your post, you committed a rather embarrassing spelling error, it is M-o-i-r-a-i-n-e. )

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So long !


R³

[WOLFGIR]

Thanks mate, my spelling is terrible, in any language...

[WOLFGIR]

Just Howling this once, so others that might be interested can see it...
Damn, the postings are raining in again!

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::HOWLING WOLFGIR THE MAD WOLF::

[Yorick]

Thanks for the info Moiraine, I remember you saying it would take a long time to reply. Cheers.
Thanks too Wolgir.

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FAIR DINKUM!

[Ramon de Ramon y Ramon]

Moiraine worked too hard on this one for me to allow it to freefall !


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So long !

R³ - Co-president(s) of the Club of Broken Hearts

[This message has been edited by Ramon de Ramon y Ramon (edited 03-07-2001).]

[Stealthy]

Superb Moiraine and Wolfie too. I have just bought the rules and it sums them up brilliantly. The customisation possible makes the game far more interesting than before, as each character is far more unique.

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Charlie's S-Plan diet is no better than his invisibility potion!