A Rule-Bending Poll

SixOfSpades · 01-04-2003, 10:16 PM

Because the number of questions keeps changing, I've deleted all my posts in this thread except the first and last, to avoid getting the enumeration all screwed up. If you wish to refer to a question by its number, please use the number listed right here.

1) Should Elves be allowed to be Bards?
2) Should Elves be allowed to be Druids and Fighter/Druids?
3) Should Gnomes be allowed to be Bards?
4) If Gnomes are allowed to be Bards, should their kit options be "tweaked," similar to the way Gnomish Mages must be Illusionists?
5) Should Gnomes be allowed to be Fighter/Cleric/Illusionists and Fighter/Thief/Illusionists?
6) Should Druids be allowed to be Neutral Good and Neutral Evil?
7) Should Halflings be allowed to be Cleric/Thieves?
8) Should Bards be allowed to use Small Shields?
9) Should Elves be allowed to be Multiclassed Clerics (Fighter/Cleric, Ranger/Cleric, Cleric/Mage, Cleric/Thief)?
10) Should the Ranger class spectrum be expanded to include Gnomes and Dwarves? If so, should they also be allowed to be Ranger/Clerics?
11) Should Half-Elves be allowed to become Paladins?
12) Should Half-Orcs be allowed to become Paladins?
13) Should Gnomes have access to the Wild Mage kit in addition to Illusionist?
14) Should Half-Orcs be allowed to be Cleric/Mages?

[ 01-10-2003, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]

Bardan the Slayer · 01-04-2003, 10:36 PM

Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes

ONe thing 3E had right was the any race = any class thing [img]smile.gif[/img]

karlosovic · 01-04-2003, 11:37 PM

1. yes ! i have no idea why elves cant be bards and even less idea why they cant be druids

2. i dont see any reasons either way why gnomes should or shouldn't be bards, but necromancy seems specifically against their whole thing they have going.

3. fully agree on all counts

4. again, I agree with you

on a side note, I'd never taken much notice to some of these restrictions as they are combinations I'd never wanted to use and so didn't notice the restrictions even existed... untill the first time I tried to be a bard. I got this image in my head about being an elven bard (Whenever I start a new game it's usually because I have thought up some character I wanted to roleplay, then I load up BG and make it), but when I went to do it... nothing

Butterfingers · 01-06-2003, 07:29 PM

A long long long time ago, in the D&D universe, the Gods decided that Gnomes were far to dangerous to use arcane necromancy spells. It's bad enough they poke their big noses in places where they have no business being, but, getting ahold of the secrets of life it self was barred from them, and, for good reason.

Actually, if you have the AD&D class handbooks, you find that almost any class can become Bards, but, they are not all called Bards. Halflings can become Whistlers. Dwarves become Hammer Chanters. Gnomes become Hummers. I don't remember the Elven part. Hammer Chanters are interesting, as they are Bards with clerical spells, as Dwarves are forbidden from arcane casting. They are also restricted to using hammers, and, hammers only. Their chanting helps their fellow Dwarves work better and in times of combat they are called upon to raise morale.

What irks me is the heavy restrictions put on Gnomes gamewise. They can become Fighter/Illusionist/Thieves or Fighter/Illusionist/Clerics. However, this option is not available in game. Argh.

Also, Half Elves can exchange any cleric multiclass combo with druid. Meaning they can be druid mages. You can even read it in the BG handbook, however, in game, the option is nulled out, which just bugs me to no end.

Butterfingers · 01-06-2003, 07:37 PM

Ugh. Just realized why they killed the Druid/Mage combo in game. Casting Time Stop, Creeping Doom, and Nature's Beauty would just ruin the game completely.

LennonCook · 01-06-2003, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Butterfingers:
Ugh. Just realized why they killed the Druid/Mage combo in game. Casting Time Stop, Creeping Doom, and Nature's Beauty would just ruin the game completely.

Then why leave a Mage/Cleric ??
To take a page from Dundee's book,
4 steps:
TimeStop
Harm
Whack
Spit

The AD&D reason why Elves can`t be bards is something to do with keeping their music to themselves, in order to preserve their cities from people who would try to listen to it.
I say - Elven commnunities have powerful sages, why would their cities therefore be reachable by non-elves if they`re so worried about it ??

Gnomes like trickery, but don`t realy act as such - they go one step further. A bard is a stage actor, and a musician. Not a con artist. A gnome therefore would not enjoy the bard class.

Halfling Cleric/Thieves - why the **** not ??

Elven druids - no. An Elf will look after nature, but not draw powers from her. An elf is the servant of nature, not the worshipper. They`re suited to be rangers and mages, definately; fighters and clerics maybe; bards yes; but not by any means a druid.

Bards with small shields - I would go quite the opposite way. Take off their use of bucklers. A musician with a shield seems just... wrong to me. But, if you keep their use of Bucklers, definately give them small shields too.

Butterfingers · 01-07-2003, 01:25 AM

Elven Druids do exist. But they are not really a playable option as a character. They are very dedicated to their cause, and, the reason why they were not a playable option is because when they reach a certain level, rather then challenging other druids for status, they become trees, guardian trees. Being a tree of course is not really a playable option.

Baros · 01-07-2003, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Butterfingers:
Elven Druids do exist. But they are not really a playable option as a character. They are very dedicated to their cause, and, the reason why they were not a playable option is because when they reach a certain level, rather then challenging other druids for status, they become trees, guardian trees. Being a tree of course is not really a playable option.

LOL! Just how much would that p*ss off Irenicus?

Butterfingers · 01-09-2003, 08:14 PM

You nailed it Six.

Elven clerics dedicate several thousand years of their life to their chosen God. Much like the Elven Druids, this dedication is total and complete. They take these sorts of things very seriously. Aerie is a freak in the classical sense of the word, as, well, she was not totally raised by Elves. That said however, any Elf raised by Gorion would probably a bit unusual as well. I guess that would change the dynamic considerably.

IIRC correctly, there are two species of Elves that do allow fighter clerics. Wilder Elves and the Drow. My memory might be a bit fuzzy though as old age creeps up on me like cheap underwear.

There is an old saying though. You will never find a Wilder Elf dedicated to a single career. Their life is to violent, their deaths to frequent, their lives to hard to put all their eggs in one basket.

LennonCook · 01-10-2003, 02:26 AM

Aerie is a Half-Elf, not an Elf...

01-04-2003, 10:16 PM	#1
SixOfSpades Dracolisk Join Date: September 16, 2001 Location: Bellingham, WA, USA Age: 46 Posts: 6,901	Because the number of questions keeps changing, I've deleted all my posts in this thread except the first and last, to avoid getting the enumeration all screwed up. If you wish to refer to a question by its number, please use the number listed right here. 1) Should Elves be allowed to be Bards? 2) Should Elves be allowed to be Druids and Fighter/Druids? 3) Should Gnomes be allowed to be Bards? 4) If Gnomes are allowed to be Bards, should their kit options be "tweaked," similar to the way Gnomish Mages must be Illusionists? 5) Should Gnomes be allowed to be Fighter/Cleric/Illusionists and Fighter/Thief/Illusionists? 6) Should Druids be allowed to be Neutral Good and Neutral Evil? 7) Should Halflings be allowed to be Cleric/Thieves? 8) Should Bards be allowed to use Small Shields? 9) Should Elves be allowed to be Multiclassed Clerics (Fighter/Cleric, Ranger/Cleric, Cleric/Mage, Cleric/Thief)? 10) Should the Ranger class spectrum be expanded to include Gnomes and Dwarves? If so, should they also be allowed to be Ranger/Clerics? 11) Should Half-Elves be allowed to become Paladins? 12) Should Half-Orcs be allowed to become Paladins? 13) Should Gnomes have access to the Wild Mage kit in addition to Illusionist? 14) Should Half-Orcs be allowed to be Cleric/Mages? [ 01-10-2003, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ] __________________ Volothamp's Comeuppance Everything you ever needed to know about the entire Baldur's Gate series......except spoilers.

01-04-2003, 10:36 PM	#2
Bardan the Slayer Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: August 16, 2002 Location: Newcastle, England Age: 45 Posts: 699	Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes ONe thing 3E had right was the any race = any class thing [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ <br />[url]\"http://www.the-silver-river.com\" target=\"_blank\">Admin and Co-Owner of The Silver River!</a><br />[url]\"http://www.the-silver-river.com/Photo%20Album/Reeka.html\" target=\"_blank\">SMNOOOOOOCH!</a> You know who it\'s meant for <img border=\"0\" title=\"\" alt=\"[Wink]\" src=\"wink.gif\" />

01-04-2003, 11:37 PM	#3
karlosovic Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: December 1, 2002 Location: Newcastle, Australia Age: 46 Posts: 636	1. yes ! i have no idea why elves cant be bards and even less idea why they cant be druids 2. i dont see any reasons either way why gnomes should or shouldn't be bards, but necromancy seems specifically against their whole thing they have going. 3. fully agree on all counts 4. again, I agree with you on a side note, I'd never taken much notice to some of these restrictions as they are combinations I'd never wanted to use and so didn't notice the restrictions even existed... untill the first time I tried to be a bard. I got this image in my head about being an elven bard (Whenever I start a new game it's usually because I have thought up some character I wanted to roleplay, then I load up BG and make it), but when I went to do it... nothing __________________ Sunglasses of Coolness +2<br /><br />Cernd: \"It is with great pride and pleasure that I accept this Most Valuable Player award....\"<br />(from the genius of Six of Spades)

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01-06-2003, 07:29 PM	#4
Butterfingers Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: November 30, 2002 Location: Five Flagons Inn Posts: 633	A long long long time ago, in the D&D universe, the Gods decided that Gnomes were far to dangerous to use arcane necromancy spells. It's bad enough they poke their big noses in places where they have no business being, but, getting ahold of the secrets of life it self was barred from them, and, for good reason. Actually, if you have the AD&D class handbooks, you find that almost any class can become Bards, but, they are not all called Bards. Halflings can become Whistlers. Dwarves become Hammer Chanters. Gnomes become Hummers. I don't remember the Elven part. Hammer Chanters are interesting, as they are Bards with clerical spells, as Dwarves are forbidden from arcane casting. They are also restricted to using hammers, and, hammers only. Their chanting helps their fellow Dwarves work better and in times of combat they are called upon to raise morale. What irks me is the heavy restrictions put on Gnomes gamewise. They can become Fighter/Illusionist/Thieves or Fighter/Illusionist/Clerics. However, this option is not available in game. Argh. Also, Half Elves can exchange any cleric multiclass combo with druid. Meaning they can be druid mages. You can even read it in the BG handbook, however, in game, the option is nulled out, which just bugs me to no end.

01-06-2003, 07:37 PM	#5
Butterfingers Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: November 30, 2002 Location: Five Flagons Inn Posts: 633	Ugh. Just realized why they killed the Druid/Mage combo in game. Casting Time Stop, Creeping Doom, and Nature's Beauty would just ruin the game completely.

01-07-2003, 01:25 AM	#7
Butterfingers Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: November 30, 2002 Location: Five Flagons Inn Posts: 633	Elven Druids do exist. But they are not really a playable option as a character. They are very dedicated to their cause, and, the reason why they were not a playable option is because when they reach a certain level, rather then challenging other druids for status, they become trees, guardian trees. Being a tree of course is not really a playable option.

01-09-2003, 08:14 PM	#9
Butterfingers Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: November 30, 2002 Location: Five Flagons Inn Posts: 633	You nailed it Six. Elven clerics dedicate several thousand years of their life to their chosen God. Much like the Elven Druids, this dedication is total and complete. They take these sorts of things very seriously. Aerie is a freak in the classical sense of the word, as, well, she was not totally raised by Elves. That said however, any Elf raised by Gorion would probably a bit unusual as well. I guess that would change the dynamic considerably. IIRC correctly, there are two species of Elves that do allow fighter clerics. Wilder Elves and the Drow. My memory might be a bit fuzzy though as old age creeps up on me like cheap underwear. There is an old saying though. You will never find a Wilder Elf dedicated to a single career. Their life is to violent, their deaths to frequent, their lives to hard to put all their eggs in one basket.

01-10-2003, 02:26 AM	#10
LennonCook Jack Burton Join Date: November 10, 2001 Location: Bathurst & Orange, in constant flux Age: 37 Posts: 5,452	Aerie is a Half-Elf, not an Elf...

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