Effective Spellcasting

[Dancing Virginia]

I'm generally weak in using spell casting to its full potential. More specifically I'm interested in knowing what spells you use to best affect and combinations of spells. Also interested in what works best for undead in melee since all of my spell casters are dualed from Fighters. I'd like some advice for the following.

In my last post several people were singing the praises of Druids. I have a Level 14 Druid and want to hear some suggestions about how I can use her most effectively. This includes spells and melee.

I'm also soliciting the same advice for Clerics. I believe mine is Level 15.

I've got a Level 20 Bard who I use mostly for buffs and spell traps when she isn't singing.

Last, I've got a level 15 or 16 (I forget which!) Illusionist.

FYI I just cleared the ground level of the Burial Isle and am preparing to enter the barrows.

Thanks for the info!

[Klorox]

Side note (since I don't know how to answer this question): Since IWD 1 & 2 are VERY different games, I think it's imperative that posts indicate which game we're talking about.

[Kyrvias]

Being that he said "Burial Isle" I can only surmise he means Icewind Dale 1.

[Dancing Virginia]

Yes I'm in Icewind Dale I. And its "She". Love how gamers always assume that everyone on this board is male!

[Ultra Marine]

Hi there....

I love a game heavy in spells. Especially spell traps.

Druids are the best as they have heal spells, offence spells, disablers & summons. Druids spells like entangle+spikes with a couple of summons will get you a long way.

Once a spell trap like that is created. My wizards generally throw fireballs, icestorms,etc. StoneSkin+mirrors? Haste+summons & Emotions are pretty good.

Clerics are moving hospitals. Except for a few buff spells and cheap skeletons. But a ranger/cleric gets minor druid spells.

Bards are better wizards (given a limited amount of experiance) because they get levels faster. I find it irritating to sing while in battle. I use bards for level based offence spells like that skull trap.

By the way, I'm a he

[Aerich]

Well, first things first. For tough fights, I toggle on the end-of-round autopause. This ensures that you can cast a spell (if you choose) with every spellcasting character at every opportunity without wasting any time. It's a little more work, but worth it.

Bear in mind that undead are immune to a number of attack forms (cold, poison, mind-affecting).

There are really about four ways for a druid to cast offensive spells, and you can mix and match as you choose. In my order of preferred tactics:

1) The Spelltrap

As Ultra Marine suggested, use immobilizers (Entangle) and long-term area-effect damagers. The general strategy is to stick 'em in place and spike 'em to death over a period of time. Pick a narrow area in which to place your spells - a bridge, doorway, or small passage is best. This strategy is most effective against large numbers of low to medium strength creatures (which generally have poor saves). To capture tougher monsters with this same tactic, team up with a cleric that casts Recitation and Prayer; you can also toss in a Curse or the wizard's Greater Malison spell. Spike Growth and Spike Stones are the preferred damagers here for druids. Spike Stones has the advantage of cutting down the movement rate of anything that does get free of the Entangle. Both spells, despite doing physical damage, can hurt undead that are normally only hurt by magical weaponry.

For best results, I'd cast at least 2 Entangles to start, and preferably 4 in very tough battles; there's no point in having a whole bunch of AoE cast on an area that the monsters can escape. Here's where it pays to have a Ranger/Cleric (or ranger) to go along with the druid. Note that Entangle does not seem to catch giant-sized creatures. I often start fights by casting my Entangles then sending a free-actioned character through to draw my targets. When the character returns to the party, then I cast the damagers.

Follow up with SG and SS. You can of course use your mages to assist in the process. Web, and to a lesser extent Grease, are surprisingly effective throughout the game. Slow is an under-appreciated useful spell. A mage's best long-term damagers include Cloudkill (does poison damage so of no use against undead) and Death Fog. Death Fog is far and away the best mage spell for the spelltrap tactics, as it does progressively more damage per round (capping at 16) and cuts movement rates in half. You can also use Suffocate (against living things) and Incendiary Cloud here.

This tactic is by far the best for Burial Isle, because you can lay spelltraps for Wailing Virgins without ever getting into range of their wails.

2) The Static Charge Effect

Static Charge is a unique and deadly spell. A high-level druid can do immense damage with several of these spells going at once. There are a few variations. You can cast your Static Charges and shapechange for melee (most effective with the Bone Marrow Belt and the water elemental shapechange, as the combination will give you 100% resistance to slashing damage). You can follow close behind your best tank(s) and spellcast, sling, or attack in melee as the situation warrants. You can also go invisible (mage spell or potion) and wander around your enemies until they get zapped, which is one of the sneakiest and cheesiest tactics available.

3) The Pseudo-Archer

This tactic is about using your druid's long-range single-target spells, generally to support your melee troops. I use this tactic in minor fights, when fighting a few tough enemies, and when I'm running out of spells. Druids have two of the better low-level melee support damage dealers. Sunscorch has a chance to blind the target, and Alicorn Lance reduces the target's AC for a few rounds. They can be a significant help to your melee characters. Note that a high level Sunscorch can do quite large amounts of damage (70+) to certain types of undead and cold-using creatures such as Frost Salamanders, Ice Trolls, and Ice Knights. You can also use higher level spells such as Fire Seeds, Sol's Searing Orb, and Fire Storm for more of a pure "bomber" role.

4) The Druid in Melee

I wouldn't recommend this tactic for a druid unless it has fighter levels. The problem here is that a druid does not have access to many "self-buff" spells, unlike a cleric. The exceptions are Entropy Shield and various elemental resistance spells. ES is a must at higher levels if you plan to melee against significant enemies. A strength buff of some sort (spell, potion, item) is useful, because a F/D often won't have great natural strength unless you were very lucky or patient with your stat rolls. Don't forget that a druid eventually gains immunity to fatigue, so take that opportunity to haste your high-level druid when going into melee - it'll double its effectiveness. It's particularly useful for the polar bear shapechange, which is slow with poor AC, but can do a lot of damage.

A druid can do ok in melee up to a point, and can excel in certain circumstances by using the shapechanges. A great way to fight winter wolves is by casting a Storm Shell with your druid then shapechanging into a polar bear (giving the max cold resistance, meaning that the druid will regenerate damage if hit with cold-source attacks). A beetle shapechange gives 50% resistances to all physical attacks except crushing, so it can buy you some time. As a general rule, I like to use two-handed weapons with druids so they can attack in melee from behind the main tanks.

Note that I did not mention the other two major categories of spells - healing and summons. A druid is a capable healer but cannot raise/resurrect the dead. You don't want your druid as the primary healer unless you can't help it, because it has far better offensive spells and summons than a cleric and so is better used in an offensive role. In terms of summons, cast them before combat and send them in as tanks, replace them during combat when necessary, and/or summon them in combat next to archers and/or spellcasters, or cast them when you need to take pressure off your tanks. Druids have the best damaging summons in the game, Creeping Doom, and can also summon the toughest elementals.

Now, a few notes on other types of casters.

A Fighter/Cleric or Ranger/Cleric can be a melee nightmare for a short time. A cleric's best self-buffs include Draw Upon Holy Might (extremely powerful at high levels, stacks with other stat buffs, so boost Str, Dex and/or Con before casting), Entropy Shield, and Righteous Wrath of the Faithful. Note that RWotF causes fatigue upon the spell's expiration, so only use it when you have Unfailing Endurance memorized or when you plan to rest at the end of the fight. A cleric has a multitude of party buffs like Recitation, Prayer, and Defensive Harmony which are also nice to cast for melee. Note that a good cleric can also cast the Shield of Lathander spells, which provide awesome defensive protection for a very short time.

Although a cleric can be formidable in melee, it's primary responsibilities are to maintain the health of the party and increase the capabilities and durability of other characters. These roles are best performed from the back, or at least from the third-into-melee position. If you do use your cleric as a tank, make sure you either have another healer for backup or are anticipating an easy fight. You can use a cleric in a limited "bomber" role, particularly against undead (extra damage for Magical Stone, often for Flame Strike), but I wouldn't recommend it. An exception is when fighting spellcasters and monsters with sound-based attacks (harpies, wailing virgins); a cleric should have a few Silence spells ready for "bombing". Note that a cleric has quite a few Enchantment-type spells, and a well-chosen Domination can essentially give you another tank. Hold Person is useful against weaker living creatures (and takes on another magnitude of importance in the early stages of HoF) and Symbol:Hopelessness is money in the bank. However, no clerical enchantment spells are of use against undead. Try turning instead if your cleric has nothing better to do.

A mage or specialist is a multi-purpose caster. You have buffs, AoE, single-target damagers, and summons. I've already mentioned some of my favourites. A F/M going into melee should always have Mirror Image going, and preferably Stoneskin and Blur as well. I dislike Tensor's Transformation (despite the double hitpoints) because it prevents you from casting again until the duration expires - not helpful if you have to replace your MI or see an opportunity to cast a spell where it will be most effective. Also, a F/M can actually end up with a worse Thaco with Tensor's if it has high fighter levels. As your caster levels up, look for damaging spells without a level cap on the damage they do - a high level Skull Trap is often better than a Fireball, because Fireball damage is capped at lvl 10.

I generally try to use my mage/bard/specialist to fit in with what my other characters are doing. You can improve the effectiveness of the druid's spelltrap (Web, Slow, Death Fog, Cloudkill, AoE damagers), you can aid your tanks with buffs, well-placed AoE, or single-target damagers to finish or immobilize dangerous enemies (of note, Chromatic Orb, Magic Missile, Icelance, Emotion spells, Power Word spells) or you can wreak havoc among enemy archers or casters with summons and spells (my favourites here include Melf's Acid Arrow, Vitriolic Sphere, Chaos, Suffocate).

Your use of your bard is exactly what I would recommend; mostly a singer, but a spellcaster when it would be most effective. I mostly use bards for immobilizers, a few select damage spells, summons, and desperation spells, by which I mean spells with a chance to finish or immobilize a target (Chromatic Orb, Icelance, Disintegration, Flesh to Stone, Finger of Death).

Edit: wow, was I bored or what...

[ 11-15-2006, 03:53 AM: Message edited by: Aerich ]

[ZFR]

Originally posted by Ultra Marine: I find it irritating to sing while in battle.

I really can't think of a use of the bard songs outside battle. Perhaps except thief skill bonuses of Tymora's melody and the regeneration of WCoS.

Spellwise, I use my bard mainly for prebuffs and summons. Sometimes non-instantenuous area of effect spells.
Otherwise he's singing.

Dancing Virginia, if you don't mind me asking. Are you Egyptian or just staying in Egypt?

[Dancing Virginia]

I've been living in Egypt since January, but no, I'm not Egyptian. I'm actually from just outside of DC. I'll be here until mid-2008, though.

[Ultra Marine]

Another good way for a spell trap is to line up skeletons then entangle them. The computer is dumb enough to send a horde against the first skeleton. This makes area damage spells more effective (so you don't blast your own skeletons up too much).

I don't bards but free healing is hard to resist.

[Aerich]

Make sure you cast some spells to which your skeletons have immunity, as well. Using skeletons as decoys is perfect for using Cloudkill and Cone of Cold.