Detained crossing the border

[Nachtrafe]

Originally posted by Melusine: The lives of hundreds of people depend on the custom people being impolite and rude?? No one is saying they shouldn't check up on people and make sure there are no lunatics with bombs getting on planes. What we're saying is that they could at least be polite about it, and try to put someone at ease. After all, what happened to INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY?? As long as they are just checking and have no actual proof someone is a terrorist, they have no right to treat you like one. Harleyquinn, I wasn't going to post this here, but you have disabled the option of receiving Private Messages, so... I am sorry about what happened to you. I have a similar experience. And I agree that what happened to Animal would be even harder for me to deal with. It would be like a nightmare. So don't come up with crap about safety. Safety isn't endangered by being nice to someone, putting them at ease, and apologising for all the misery they were put through.

Hmmmm...Hiya Magik. Seems you're getting roundly pounded on for being the one with the unpopular opinion...again. LOL...Well, you're about to have company.

Mel...One key thing that you, and several others, seem to be forgetting. That whole 'Innocent until proven guilty' thing...in America, it only applies to AMERICAN CITIZENS! Citizens and nationals of other countries have NO RIGHTS under the US Constitution. So yeah, it's guilty until proven innocent. And, in case anyone had forgotten, the US is on Level Orange terror alert, so security is heightened at ALL international checkpoints. The US customs has EVERY right to treat any and all incoming individuals like terrorists until and unless it is *PROVEN* that they are not. All it takes is to let *ONE* person slip through, and there goes another airliner, or a government facility, or a public school, or or or and and and. Get my point?

Now, lest I get flamed out of existance, I do have to say that I emphatize with Animal. It sucks that he was treated so rudely. BUT...as Magik said, there are two sides to every story. If the custom's officers were here I'm sure that there side of the story would reflect well on them too. These guys are underpaid, overstressed, and are trying desperately to A)Prevent crackpots/terrorists/scumbags from entering the US, B)Trying to do so in a manner which 'wont offend anyone', cuz godforbid we offend a freakin terrorist by actually catching him and stopping him from doing what he intends to do and C)Deal with an angry, worried, and generally pissy public who keeps constantly screaming for greater security while at the same time screaming bloody murder when it happens to personally inconvienence them.

Now, do I think that the custome people went a wee bit overboard...sure I do. But, and, forgive me Animal, but this really is my opinion, I would rather have a few people pissed off than a lot of people dead.

Yeah what Nacht said!

[The Hierophant]

Magik and Nachtrafe: excellent points, and I agree. Security is security, especially in today's circumstances.
But it's not hard to say 'we're so sorry about all of this. Please accept our humblest apologies. We were just doing a necessary job.', and even perhaps chip in for a new laptop.
There's following standard procedure with bluntness and rude disregard for human dignity, and there's following standard procedure with respectful politeness and tact.

[Nachtrafe]

Originally posted by MagiK: Yeah what Nacht said!

LOLOL!!!

So Ray, got any room in that bunker? I think that I might need to duck in there with you soon. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by The Hierophant: Magik and Nachtrafe: excellent points, and I agree. Security is security, especially in today's circumstances. But it's not hard to say 'we're so sorry about all of this. Please accept our humblest apologies. We were just doing a necessary job.', and even perhaps chip in for a new laptop. There's following standard procedure with bluntness and rude disregard for human dignity, and there's following standard procedure with respectful politeness and tact.

I agree.

Originally posted by Nachtrafe: Quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Yeah what Nacht said!

LOLOL!!!

So Ray, got any room in that bunker? I think that I might need to duck in there with you soon. [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Yup, got several cases of MRE's and Gallons of water down here

[harleyquinn]

Originally posted by Melusine: The lives of hundreds of people depend on the custom people being impolite and rude?? No one is saying they shouldn't check up on people and make sure there are no lunatics with bombs getting on planes. What we're saying is that they could at least be polite about it, and try to put someone at ease. After all, what happened to INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY?? As long as they are just checking and have no actual proof someone is a terrorist, they have no right to treat you like one. Harleyquinn, I wasn't going to post this here, but you have disabled the option of receiving Private Messages, so... I am sorry about what happened to you. I have a similar experience. And I agree that what happened to Animal would be even harder for me to deal with. It would be like a nightmare. So don't come up with crap about safety. Safety isn't endangered by being nice to someone, putting them at ease, and apologising for all the misery they were put through.

Thanks for what you said, Melusine. I have PM's turned off just because on other boards I've had to deal with either people harrasing me or guys writing me asking for boob size (oh yeah, that's a turn on, seesh).

While I agree there's a need for security, I think we've gone to the extreme in some cases. We as a society have a tendency to do that after a tragedy, and then come to a happy medium after a while. Hopefully we'll soon get to that point, where we're able to have effective security and still have people not feel harrased. I stick by my feelings that with all the technology we have today, there must be a less evasive way of searching someone without a cavity/strip search. Xrays, MRI's, something else?
Before anyone thinks I'm too removed from what happened, I'm originally from Long Island. I can't count how many people I know who've lost someone (and one person who lost 12 family members). I'm also about an hour away from where they arrested the "Lakawana" suspects. My parents live an hour from D.C., so if something big ever happens there, they'll probably be affected or worse. Yet, with all this, I still manage to keep from treating every foriegner like a suspect or have the attitude of "If your innocent, prove it". I wouldn't want to be treated that way when visiting another country and in fact we become annoyed when we hear of US citizens being treated that way in other contries, so I find it very hypocritical of us to do the same in the name of safety. Just because one isn't protected under our constitution doesn't mean we still shouldn't treat them with dignity and respect.
Does any one know the answer to the question in my previous post in this thread?
Thanks,

[ 02-20-2003, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: harleyquinn ]

[Nachtrafe]

Originally posted by The Hierophant: Magik and Nachtrafe: excellent points, and I agree. Security is security, especially in today's circumstances. But it's not hard to say 'we're so sorry about all of this. Please accept our humblest apologies. We were just doing a necessary job.', and even perhaps chip in for a new laptop. There's following standard procedure with bluntness and rude disregard for human dignity, and there's following standard procedure with respectful politeness and tact.

OK, that's fair. And, I totally agree that Animal deserves(at the very least) an apology. I was just trying to point out that the folks at Customs are doing there best, and, like all human beings, they probably get tired of being treated rudely, so begin to be rude in return. Yes, it's petty, but it happens. Human nature, I guess. I've worked in customer service jobs my whole life, and, I'll tell you, after day after day of putting up with whiny/bitchy/rude/arrogant people, you sometimes just snap, no matter what your native level of politeness.

I, too, have seen the attitude of most people going through security/customs checkpoints, and let me tell you, it's less than stellar. Politeness/respect works BOTH ways! If people would consistently work just a little harder at trying to be patient and polite, I'd be willing to bet that the security/customs folks would too.

[realbinky]

Animal, assuming your story is accurate, as it is all I can do, none of us can KNOW it right now, your treatment was poor. The extra time and documents that you provided should have been the proof, or at least close enough, to accord you some decent treatment. If they had questions, they could have called the providers of the documents to verify them. I empathize with you as well.

I do agree with MagiK and Nachtstrafe (sp?) that customs HAS to treat everyone like this, some freakos can be the smoothest, friendliest folks, because they trained to be so. How about when you get pulled over for speeding, and the cop treats you like a serial-murderer? Because 1 in 500,000 they pull over IS, and they can't tell if it's you. Same with customs, plenty of folks feel like it is only them, and what did they do, and can't they SEE I'm not doing anything?

That being said, if we paid they right money, and hired the right folks, this work WOULD be done in an effective manner, and with politeness all around. We aren't, and in Animal's defense, the screeners at Logan are some of the worst no-ethic, hack, assclowns in the industry. Logan STILL fails tests, they have screeners who STEAL cash and valuables (and they do nothing about it), everything about it at Logan is second (or tenth) rate. I, too, fly out of Providence if at all possible.

[Moiraine]

Originally posted by MagiK: Quote: Originally posted by The Hierophant: Quote: Originally posted by MagiK: You are right, there must be a better way, but untill someone can invent it, there isn't.

It was invented thousands of years ago, it's called showing a little goddam respect to your fellow man![/QUOTE]I thought you were an atheist?[/QUOTE]I am a little confused by this comment - what in the universe being or not an atheist and showing or not respect to your fellow man have to do with each other ?