Burning the Flag or Burning the Freedom to do so?

[Zebodog]

Having some real world experience with this, I feel the need to chime in.

Burning a flag is a sign of disrespect, regardless of which flag or the reasons why it was burned. Whether it is written into the Constitution or not, people can still choose to burn it if they wish, but there will be consequences (rightfully so) to such an act much the same as any other crime if there is an amendment.

Before passing judgement on the US Flag (or any other flag) about what it does or doesn't represent, you need to be schooled somewhat.

For those that have fought in war, or been involved in a "Police Action," then that flag represents something that the average citizen will never be able to comprehend. Whether we believed in what we were fighting for or not, we believed in the flag and we believed in what it represented.

The day came that I no longer believed in the flag my country was flying, a country, a government and a people that spat in my face for defending that flag. I decided to leave

That flag that you so desire to burn was the same flag that was flying when you were born into this world...the flag of freedom.

If you don't like what your country represents then leave but don't you dare disrespect those who gave you the very freedom you enjoy today.

[Q'alooaith]

Burning a flag is a protest, not aganst the flag and what it represents.

It is a protest aganst thouse who put forth the flag, use it as a symbol for their own ends and not the ideals it represents.

It's a statment that would rather destroy the thing you love, than see it missused.

[Nightwing]

Zebodog we think a little differently. To burn the flag in protest of what we are doing in Iraq is very respectfull to our country and the men and women in our armed services. More than two thousand have died not protecting our soverenty or freedom, niether one these were thretened by Iraq. Our president fabricated the lies to get our solders to go there and die. The flag of the united states does not stand for that last time I looked.

[Timber Loftis]

To be sure, burning the flag can certainly be a protest those who coopt the flag and use its symbology as a means to justify their own perverse ends. No country is free of the threat of being overtaken and run by scoundrels, least of all the US.

[Felix The Assassin]

Originally posted by Nightwing: Zebodog we think a little differently. To burn the flag in protest of what we are doing in Iraq is very respectfull to our country and the men and women in our armed services. More than two thousand have died not protecting our soverenty or freedom, niether one these were thretened by Iraq. Our president fabricated the lies to get our solders to go there and die. The flag of the united states does not stand for that last time I looked.

Tisk, Tisk, it has been awhile since we had an anti-war thread. However, this thread is Chewy's, and it's about flag burning. I could put you in front of roughly 32,000 folks in a manner of minutes, or a couple 100,000 in a few days, who think differntly than you and your "respectfullness" of burning their flag. Therefore your view might be different than others of this nation.

FYI: The current count is 2827, each one came home under a flag!

[Nightwing]

I rather they were walking around carrying the flag Felix. They trust our government to make decisions that take care of the safety and wellfare of this nation, going to war in Iraq did niether. I'm sorry but the current government disrespected the solders of this nation by sending them there. If burning the flag in protest gets the point across that they need to change their way of thinking then I'm all for it.

[Luther]

Originally posted by Felix The Assassin: Tisk, Tisk, it has been awhile since we had an anti-war thread. However, this thread is Chewy's, and it's about flag burning. I could put you in front of roughly 32,000 folks in a manner of minutes, or a couple 100,000 in a few days, who think differntly than you and your "respectfullness" of burning their flag. Therefore your view might be different than others of this nation. FYI: The current count is 2827, each one came home under a flag!

I've noticed that every time someone disagrees with you you adopt an intimidating tone to your posts. You say things like 'show us a video so we can get this party started' or 'I can get X amount of guys together' etc etc ad nauseum. You constantly invoke the vague notion of 'freedom', but in reality you're nothing but a bully. It's because of people like you that the freedom to burn the flag must remain lawfully enshrined within the US Constitution.

[ 07-06-2006, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: Luther ]

[shamrock_uk]

I'm sure Felix wasn't intending to be intimidating, but rather explaining that he knows many others in the Forces who agree with his point of view. Lets try not to make this thread personal [img]smile.gif[/img] It's only a flag, after all [img]tongue.gif[/img] *runs for cover*

I think John D has it spot on - the US is lucky to have its consitution laid out so nicely - lets not pollute it with any amendments that are unnecessary. It has also been my humble observation that lawmakers were much more meticulous and sensible in days of yore...lets leave messing with the constitution to the Founding Fathers, eh?

@Nightwing - wonderful comeback with that first sentence If only life was so simple though I guess it comes down to the old "you may have the right to do it, but it doesn't mean you should do it."

Doesn't a citizen in a free state have a sort of moral duty not to antagonise others unecessarily?

[ 07-06-2006, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]

[Zebodog]

Originally posted by Nightwing: I rather they were walking around carrying the flag Felix. They trust our government to make decisions that take care of the safety and wellfare of this nation, going to war in Iraq did niether. I'm sorry but the current government disrespected the solders of this nation by sending them there. If burning the flag in protest gets the point across that they need to change their way of thinking then I'm all for it.

By burning that flag in protest you are disrespecting every single soldier who ever gave his life so that you may live a life of freedom.

The government may well choose to disrespect those soldiers it sends into a meaningless battle, but the flag didn't make that choice...the government did.

Did Vietnam teach anybody, anything? Protest the government and protest the war but don't protest the flag and the soldiers that represent it. They don't like it anymore than you do.

[Felix The Assassin]

Originally posted by Nightwing: I rather they were walking around carrying the flag Felix.

I whole heartily concur.

They trust our government to make decisions that take care of the safety and wellfare of this nation, going to war in Iraq did niether.

We are a volunteer military. We all took an oath. The oath is very powerful, and very meaningful. If you don't mind, let me recite it for you:

"I DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT I WILL SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC; THAT I WILL BEAR TRUE FAITH AND ALLEGIANCE TO THE SAME; AND THAT I WILL OBEY THE ORDERS OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE ORDERS OF THE OFFICERS APPOINTED OVER ME, ACCORDING TO REGULATIONS AND THE UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE. SO HELP ME GOD."

Those words may not have any meaning whatsoever to you. But to me, and my brethern, they mean a whole lot. But the real meaning is back to what you said. "safety and welfare of the nation". You cannot be any more correct.

I'm sorry but the current government disrespected the solders of this nation by sending them there.

I'm at a total loss on this one. In whose eyes? In what manner? Are we not trained to protect the "nation from enemies, foreign or domestic"? Are we not protecting the safety of the nation? Can you not see through the left leaning media what is not transpiring on our soil? Please see through the debris, and fully understand that your choice to drive your personal vehicle over to either BK or KFC (add your fav here) for a bagged meal IS being protected in a far away land.

If burning the flag in protest gets the point across that they need to change their way of thinking then I'm all for it.

That would be the ultimate disrespect you could do to any service member, past, present, or future.


It is your freedom, and your rights to do as you please in my country. That I served 23 years in the service of my nation for you alone to have that right is why I chose to serve. But understand this, that piece of cloth that you might burn in the face of your freedom, to protest the government that was elected, to which you disagree may have a different meaning to me, and the 763,000 of my brothers and sisters.

Warning; historical quotes from American history, strong but non-abusive language follows.

I leave you with three tiny things:

1. Patrick Henry; "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!"
-Patrick Henry as he stood before the Virgina assembly 1775.

2. The Statue of Liberty; "Located on 12-acre Liberty Island in New York Harbor, the Statue of Liberty was a gift of international friendship from the people of France to the people of the United States and is one of the most universal symbols of political freedom and democracy. The Statue of Liberty was dedicated on October 28, 1886."

3. The first verse of the National Anthem: "Oh, say can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?