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Old 02-02-2005, 03:11 PM   #31
Cloudbringer
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Oh and I'll be sure to tell my husband that for the 6 months or so he was hitting the pavement looking for work after relocating across the country he was a 'dreg' and only worthy of 'pity' by some people. Just for the record, he never got unemployment or any other support while job hunting and it was a tough time for us- right before our wedding.

I don't approve of welfare fraud or taking what you don't need just because it's 'free' or you CAN get it either, but I do know that there are women out there who NEED the income/food stamps etc to help support their children while they try to get work.

I knew a woman whose husband ran out on her, leaving her with two very young children and a house payment. She worked two part time jobs and I babysat for her kids. On a number of occasions I had to hide a jar of PEANUT BUTTER and two of the children's few toys because the social worker was coming and might see them and take away their support. Why? Because the grandparents gave them the two small toys and extra peanut butter that month! It was absolutely unbelievable to me and I saw just how hard the woman worked to provide a home for her children while her deadbeat husband gambled in Los Vegas and moved around so he wouldn't have to pay child support.

On the other hand, abuse is an issue. I've also seen families that buy expensive computer equipment, televisions, have cable tv and multiple cellphones and other gadgets and buy software, booze and drugs instead of food for their kids so they get food stamps and welfare payments and somehow get away with it!

The point here is that you can't make a broad statement about people here or in Germany who are out of work or need support. Every situation is different.

[ 02-02-2005, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]
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Old 02-02-2005, 05:14 PM   #32
Q'alooaith
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Join Date: December 10, 2003
Location: UK
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cloudbringer:
Q'alooaith, you're treading the line right now, so I'm giving you a friendly reminder that one of the major rules for this forum is BE CIVIL with other members. You don't have to agree with everyone or with anyone at all nor do you have to like what others say, but you DO have to interact in a civil manner and insulting other members is NOT an option.
Cloudy, a freindly reminder could have come in the form of a PM, which would have got a much better reaction (I've rewritten this post twice already).

I'm being as civil as everyone else, I have not insulted any body intentionaly.
The acusation offends me.


I have been civil, I have respected the views of others, I have dissagreed with engery, as is expected in a discusion, I have made my tirade. what would you have me do diffrently, what exactly is wrong with my reply?
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Old 02-02-2005, 07:47 PM   #33
Vaskez
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Quote:
Originally posted by Q'alooaith:


You don't need to support the unemployed, they are all dregs, deserving nothing not even pity.
It's all evolution, the strong survive, the weak perish.


Oh dear, did I offend your delicate sensiblitys, such a shame. I would pity the women in this situation, but that would imply I have even have any empathy.
Talking crap like that isn't being civil or respectful. I wonder if you'd call your mother a dreg if she became unemployed. True, loads of people do sit around being lazy and don't look for jobs, but you can't generalise like that (well you can, but it makes you look like a dumbass with no insight into the world). Besides lazy people do deserve pity, not "not even pity" since it is a weakness. Also some people may be unemployed due to a disability or health condition. I dunno why I'm even bothering to type this, it's obvious.

You should also learn that sarcasm is only worth using if it's funny [img]tongue.gif[/img]

You should also learn that when using the plural form of a word ending in "y", it generally changes to "ie" [img]tongue.gif[/img]

You also said that you wouldn't pass the health check for this "job" in question, so does that make you one of the weak who perish?
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Old 02-02-2005, 08:15 PM   #34
Q'alooaith
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vaskez:
I wonder if you'd call your mother a dreg if she became unemployed.
If she was claiming JSA(unemployment benefit) for more than a year, yes.

I don't have to stoop to individual name calling, I know I'm intelligent, I know I don't get all my spellings correct. I know I'm not perfect, do you?
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Old 02-02-2005, 08:29 PM   #35
Vaskez
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You don't have to stoop to name-calling? But it was you who told me a month or two ago that you'd like to cuss me down based on what I looked like or what I was wearing.

Also, you didn't explain how what I quoted above is you being civil and respectful.

Also, you didn't say whether you did indeed consider yourself to be one of the weak who should perish based on your own argument?

There's no point even answering your last question since nobody is perfect, therefore by default, neither am I. Was there really any point in that question? There's a big difference between being perfect and learning to spell in the language of the land where you live and I presume in your mother tongue. And how do you KNOW you're intelligent?

[ 02-02-2005, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: Vaskez ]
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Old 02-02-2005, 08:41 PM   #36
The Hierophant
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cerek:
It is not always as easy as it sounds to just "pick up and move" someplace where there ARE jobs available. Unless the woman is willing to live in her car or look for a homeless shelter, she will have a difficult time finding a place to live unless she already has the money to support herself.
Yeah, I fully realise that not everyone would be prepared to give up the conveniences that they are used to in order to find work. Which is why i said my lifestyle doesn't necessarily translate to everyone else.

Still, it's just a case of adaptability. I lived in a tent/crashed on couches for a couple of weeks a year or two back while looking for work. It would be harder to do with children in tow, certainly. But again I think that one of the 'shortcomings' (read: 'things I don't like') of Western consumer culture is that we're too attached to our daily routines and static creature comforts. I think a bit of 'upheaval' is healthy for people. I could get into my wishy-washy theories of how our bodies just arn't designed for sedentary lifestyles etc etc but that would overly self-indulgent...
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Old 02-02-2005, 09:29 PM   #37
Ladyzekke
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LOL dang! Glad I live in the U.S.! I mean people become unemployed for many reasons, and not just because they are lazy. Oh no doubt there are a LOT of people sucking off of welfare, having tons of kids they cannot afford, and we all as taxpayers pay for them to just sit home basically. But a lot of people go or are unemployed because of just life circumstances, and I don't think they should be set aside as a lower class type or weak. You can't blanket everyone who is unemployed, that's just ignorance if you do.

Oh and again as a woman, shite yeah glad I don't have that deal LOL! I mean what kinda crap is that LOL? [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] Oh! if you can't find a job, you gotta go put your body out there LOL. Yes strange men inside your body, who knows where they've been or what they have, but hey, that's life eh?! Oh and if they want to invade other things on your body, and are ugly and repulsive, well again, hey... ROTFL, again..., screw that people! Man that's just a suck situation IMO. Hey, is that law applied to males? I mean it should be you know. If males cannot get a job, then they get cut off of funds too if they don't sell themselves as male prostitutes, and I mean for gay men too, cause let's face it, that's the closest to what women have to deal with, so tis fair! Yep, big naked hairy man for youse guys out of work! Whadday think?

LOL, sorry, that's not really a "job" IMO, in comparison to every other real job out there. It is far far different, and the only people that think it's OK and no big deal are people who have jobs and don't have to worry about getting forked.

[img]tongue.gif[/img]
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Old 02-02-2005, 10:59 PM   #38
Cerek
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Hierophant:
quote:
Originally posted by Cerek:
It is not always as easy as it sounds to just "pick up and move" someplace where there ARE jobs available. Unless the woman is willing to live in her car or look for a homeless shelter, she will have a difficult time finding a place to live unless she already has the money to support herself.
Yeah, I fully realise that not everyone would be prepared to give up the conveniences that they are used to in order to find work. Which is why i said my lifestyle doesn't necessarily translate to everyone else.

Still, it's just a case of adaptability. I lived in a tent/crashed on couches for a couple of weeks a year or two back while looking for work. It would be harder to do with children in tow, certainly. But again I think that one of the 'shortcomings' (read: 'things I don't like') of Western consumer culture is that we're too attached to our daily routines and static creature comforts. I think a bit of 'upheaval' is healthy for people. I could get into my wishy-washy theories of how our bodies just arn't designed for sedentary lifestyles etc etc but that would overly self-indulgent... [/QUOTE]Sorry, Heiro, but you are wrong - especially regarding my experience. It wasn't a matter of me "not being comfortable" with the options I had at all. I was living two states away from where I grew up. The ONLY people I "knew" were the two I was sharing a house with already, but they had purchased a new house that was a bit smaller and didn't have room for a 3rd roommate. I checked my other options and there simply were NONE that I could afford - even though I had a paying job. I didn't have anyone that I could "crash" with. I had no choice but to come back home and start over.

Now, I happen to believe that God has a plan for each of our lives and that this was part of His plan for mine. I'm perfectly fine with that, but I do take exception to being told I just didn't want to step outside my "comfort zone" when you have no idea of the situation and circumstances I was facing at the time.
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Old 02-02-2005, 11:07 PM   #39
Cerek
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Quote:
Originally posted by ladyzekke:
LOL dang! Glad I live in the U.S.! I mean people become unemployed for many reasons, and not just because they are lazy. Oh no doubt there are a LOT of people sucking off of welfare, having tons of kids they cannot afford, and we all as taxpayers pay for them to just sit home basically. But a lot of people go or are unemployed because of just life circumstances, and I don't think they should be set aside as a lower class type or weak. You can't blanket everyone who is unemployed, that's just ignorance if you do.

Oh and again as a woman, shite yeah glad I don't have that deal LOL! I mean what kinda crap is that LOL? [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] Oh! if you can't find a job, you gotta go put your body out there LOL. Yes strange men inside your body, who knows where they've been or what they have, but hey, that's life eh?! Oh and if they want to invade other things on your body, and are ugly and repulsive, well again, hey... ROTFL, again..., screw that people! Man that's just a suck situation IMO. Hey, is that law applied to males? I mean it should be you know. If males cannot get a job, then they get cut off of funds too if they don't sell themselves as male prostitutes, and I mean for gay men too, cause let's face it, that's the closest to what women have to deal with, so tis fair! Yep, big naked hairy man for youse guys out of work! Whadday think?

LOL, sorry, that's not really a "job" IMO, in comparison to every other real job out there. It is far far different, and the only people that think it's OK and no big deal are people who have jobs and don't have to worry about getting forked.

[img]tongue.gif[/img]
Hear, Hear, LadyZ! [img]graemlins/jumpclap.gif[/img]

One of the things about prostitution is that the men feel they have the right to do whatever they want to the woman since they paid for the privilege. If the guy is butt-ugly, that's too bad. If he wants to get a little rough, that's also too bad. To force a woman into that lifestyle against her choice is absolutely reprehensible - period.

I also agree that the law should apply to German men as well as women. If the men don't find work in a year, then they also have to become male prostitutes. The demand may not be as high, but I'm sure a demand does exist.

And I saw nothing in the article to suggest it mattered whether these women would pass a "health check" for the job or not. It just said that if they were still unemployed after a year, then they had to accept a job as a prostitute or lose their benefits. That is forced prostitution and it is NOT "victimless".


[ 02-02-2005, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: Cerek ]
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Old 02-02-2005, 11:33 PM   #40
The Hierophant
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Cerek, I never said I was right, and I never suggested that you personally were unreceptive to new circumstances. I was making a cultural generalisation: that for the most part one of the major goals of life for a great percentage of the Western population is to own their own house and settle down with a steady job... which I personally find undesirable. Me. Personally. Myself. In my taste...
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