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Old 01-22-2003, 12:00 AM   #31
Chewbacca
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Why does the lack in belief in god automaticly assume a lack of belief in continued existense beyond physical form. Perhaps a stauch atheist may disregard any notion of life after death but a more open-minded atheist may consider the possibilities and study the events concerning life beyond and outside the realm of the five senses.
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Old 01-22-2003, 12:06 AM   #32
Yorick
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gammit:
You can't believe something by going "well, I have nothing to lose, so..."! That's just nuts. Secondly, your argument is reminiscent of Pascal's wager argument, in which he argued that it was a better "bet" to believe in God than to not... and that argument has been proven bunk many of times over, even by me.

Yorick, people cause war. (: Money doesn't (imagine thousands of quarters, all hurling insults at each other!). I understand the basic argument that "religion causes war," as many (some would argue most) skirmishes have been fought over religion. I believe that religion can cause both war and peace; it all depends on the person.
Money being a motive for people.
Animals war over food, territory and mating rights.

It depends on the person but also depends on the religion. A religion of peace cannot cause war. It's like saying 'desires cause war' or "ideals cause war."
The content is vitally important.

Chrsit was quite clear when he told us to turn the other cheek and to love our enemies and those that persecute us. He also said our struggle is not physical, but spiritual. Paul speaks of the spiritual armour of God.

Fighting a physical war in the name of Jesus is thus a contradiction.

[ 01-21-2003, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]
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Old 01-22-2003, 12:08 AM   #33
Yorick
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dagorion:
Yes, I see your point Yorick...
No worries Dagorion. [img]smile.gif[/img] Cheers and salutations mate. [img]smile.gif[/img]
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Old 01-22-2003, 12:16 AM   #34
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Vaskie, you really astound me some days! [img]graemlins/kiss.gif[/img]

What a fascinating post. And you bring forth a concept my own priest mentions frequently. I am a believer and the way I see it, I'd rather be 'wrong' about that than be an atheist and be 'wrong' that way! Your points are exactly the ones I'd have used. What harm if one lives a life of faith- or tries very hard to do what is right by that belief and leaves that legacy behind- with or without the afterlife? But if one lives as though there is no God, and in the end you find you've been grievously in error- well, that's not the end I'd prefer even if I WASN'T already a believer... but yes, Azrael's point is key here.

You cannot force faith and belief on anyone. It's something that each of us finds for ourselves. Our relationships with God are personal and individual. I can no more 'force' my beliefs on someone else than I could force a Camel to shoot water through it's nostrils and make elephant noises.
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Old 01-22-2003, 12:28 AM   #35
/)eathKiller
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interesting point but some people simply are turned off by God because they dont think there is anything to gain but people in shabby groups who feel they need to persecute and change people, its people like these, who don't level with reality and close themselves up in false worlds where they thinkt hey are perfect and all sinners will burn, these are the types that usually turn out representing the CHristian community to athiests, and that's usually not a good thing, same with most catholics, let's face it, they're down right forcive, unchanging, and stubborn, It took until the 1970s just for them to belive that earth orbited around the sun 9_9

The point is that not all christians are like this, especially not the people who are responsible for its creation (mainly Jesus)

now you ask, what did Jesus do that requires so much admiration

he said these words which The catholic church has refused to abide by because it would mean the destruction of their weekly Collection plate passing around:

Split a peice of wood and I am there...
Lift a Stone and I am there...


God is not a devotion, he is everything that is and ever will be... his only law is for the imperfection that is humanity to remain forever imperfect but to thrive...

and forget about the King James version of the bible being taken litterally, that's only for the absent minded, athiests think that they can do better because they view all church goers and people devoted to ancient writings in a book.

lets face it, this book isnt perfect, like humans it can be pictured in many diferint lights and seen in many diffeint ways and if it is EVER taken 100% as the truth I am sorry but that is just down right poppycock! they didnt have the knowledge back then that we have now to explain things, its best to not dwell on such things but to simply go along with them, and take them as they come. The bible also doesnt want to convert everyone it just wants to awaken the willing and sent the rest to eden.

Athiests don't go to hell, ladies and gents they leave this earth with as much knowledge as they have when they come in, First hand accounts have proven this...

So I leave you with the simple thought:

Don't dwell on steriotypes and maybe the world can get along...

all you athiests hold a christians hand, and all you christians hold a mustlims hand and all the mustlims take a bhudists hand and lets all just get along, its better to be off holding hands that having any argumentation about it! Its our differinces which keep us united as a people and a race inhabbiting such an insignifigant blue dot in a sea of stars...

I say that we join together until the darkness of the skies which is placed in between the stars is consistant of OUR NUMBER!!!

WHO'SE WITH ME!!!??

FOR HUMANITY!!!!!!

[img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 01-21-2003, 11:33 PM: Message edited by: /)eathKiller ]
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Old 01-22-2003, 12:57 AM   #36
homer
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Quote:
Originally posted by /)eathKiller:

all you athiests hold a christians hand, and all you christians hold a mustlims hand and all the mustlims take a bhudists hand and lets all just get along, its better to be off holding hands that having any argumentation about it! Its our differinces which keep us united as a people and a race inhabbiting such an insignifigant blue dot in a sea of stars...
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Old 01-22-2003, 01:20 AM   #37
GokuZool
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If God is so powerful and wonderful then why is there war and poverty?
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Old 01-22-2003, 01:29 AM   #38
homer
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Quote:
Originally posted by GokuZool:
If God is so powerful and wonderful then why is there war and poverty?
War and poverty are by products of humanity, not religion.
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Old 01-22-2003, 01:32 AM   #39
GokuZool
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Quote:
Originally posted by homer:
quote:
Originally posted by GokuZool:
If God is so powerful and wonderful then why is there war and poverty?
War and poverty are by products of humanity, not religion.[/QUOTE]Yeah, but can't he resurect people
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Old 01-22-2003, 02:06 AM   #40
Yorick
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Quote:
Originally posted by GokuZool:
If God is so powerful and wonderful then why is there war and poverty?
Because God IS so powerful.

Can you make something which has enough incentive, choice, volition and emotion to love, destroy itself, build or create.
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