A philosophical question....

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Ilander: Okay, so here's the question: Why has humanity invented the idea of success? It's not about survival anymore (it hasn't been about that for a while in the "civilized" world)...a successful person is no longer a person who lives, but is instead a myraid of other things...so what is success? Why does it exist? What societal role does it serve, and what advantage does it give us over other species?

Why did we invent the idea of success? In asking this question you assume that we actually did invent it. So I pose further questions to you:

Why do you think we invented the idea of success?
Can you be sure that it universally exists?
Do you know what it is?
And if so, in asking what advantages it gives you assume that it does bring advantages. Why do you think this?

[ 05-17-2004, 10:35 PM: Message edited by: The Hierophant ]

[Thoran]

Man didn't invent success... we simply attached the word to a phenomena that we have experienced since before we "successfully" evolved into something that could think about abstract things like words. Someday our string of successes will run out... at which point we will no longer be around to worry about it.

[ 05-17-2004, 10:52 PM: Message edited by: Thoran ]

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Thoran: Man didn't invent success... we simply attached the word to a phenomena that we have experienced since before we "successfully" evolved into something that could think about abstract things like words. Someday our string of successes will run out... at which point we will no longer be around to worry about it.

Would a Buddhist Monk's notion/feeling of success be similar to that of a Wall Street Capitalist?

[Firestormalpha]

That's assuming evolution to be fact Thoran. As stated before evolution is one of many theories that are not proven yet.

As stated success is an abstract aspect of our lives, much like freedom. What does it mean to be free? To do what you want regardless of the effect on others? To live without someone else being in control of your life?

[Nanobyte]

Originally posted by Harkoliar: without success we would be still in the stoneage for survival. success is what makes us apart from normal animals

Success is a concept. It puts meaning in the actions we do; sort of like, a personal reward. I don't believe it's what sets us apart from other animals, however.

[Harkoliar]

you explained my standpoint more better nanobyte

I don't believe it's what sets us apart from other animals, however.

why is that?

[Raistlin Majere]

Success is what drives us forth, its what makes us want to live another day. Modern life is relatively *easy* for most people. Go to the fridge, grab a beer and stuff a pizza into the micro, followed by the classic couch potato phenomenon. Years before the modern era, success was basically about killing a deer or finding some berries to feed yourself and your family with. But today people want more to keep themselves from feeling useless and falling to depression, thus we always strive to do something better, something new and something grand. Modern man is rarely content. Ive even known a man who "had it all": a family, a few million bucks and a damn good job. But he felt he needed to reach further, to take himself away from the routine-like life he led and to make himself feel good. He did make some bad choices, so now he is broke, his wife left him and his buisness went bankrupt, but still he's happy, 'cause now he feels he can actually achieve something more in life, that his life isnt the boring routine it used to be.

[Larry_OHF]

A man that is marked as successful does not have to be a man carrying the titles of happy or joyful.

In fact, a successful man may appear happy to the viewer, but inside he himself may feel unsuccessful or unhappy.

Therefore, true success is when the inside persona and the viewing world all agree upon the success of that person. Else it would be a false title.

[Mellagar]

Ilander, your question is an old one, carried alongside the question of why we exist. Like our existance, the reason for success is a personal matter. What is success for one is failure for another. Such as when a person learns to play chess, though they loose every time, their success is that they learned to play. Not all victory is success, as with failure comes wisdom, by learning from what was done wrong. Animals carry success as well. When a predator catches its prey, a female gives birth, or the newly born survive the changing seasons. Success is a series of events, waves of emotions, or accomplished goals, and like life, success comes and goes, leaving it up to the individual to learn from it what they will.

[Thoran]

Originally posted by The Hierophant: quote: Originally posted by Thoran: Man didn't invent success... we simply attached the word to a phenomena that we have experienced since before we "successfully" evolved into something that could think about abstract things like words. Someday our string of successes will run out... at which point we will no longer be around to worry about it.

Would a Buddhist Monk's notion/feeling of success be similar to that of a Wall Street Capitalist? [/QUOTE]That's a different question... certainly a worm that lives a long life and creates a lot of little worms is successful... but doesn't experience it in the same manner that we do. The key is seperating the concept from the application.

Regarding the Buddhist monk... it's likely that his internal feelings of success at learning a new chant (being a bit silly but you know what I mean) are similar to those of the Wall Street guy who's just pulled off a big deal. Each feels a sense of accomplisment and satisfaction at what they think of as an important job well done, but that line of reasoning is a red herring. Your question points to the theory of relativism... a popular concept these days but one that I feel is FAR too overused and abused. Success as a simple intellectual concept is not subject to relativism in my opinion because it is an abstract concept... applying it to a situation is the only way you can then suggest relative differences... but it's not "Success" that's relative... it's the situation.