Police pursuits: should they or should they not occur?

[Memnoch]

From the Sydney Morning Herald.

Death of toddler and offender sparks police chase review January 16, 2004 - 3:10PM Police will review all car chase procedures after a pursuit ended in the death of a three-year-old girl and an offender in a head-on collision in Sydney's north-west. Moments after police began pursuing a speeding motorist at McGraths Hill about 10pm (AEDT) yesterday, the offending vehicle, a Commodore, crossed to the wrong side of the road and hit a Ford Falcon with four occupants. The 53-year-old male driver of the Commodore and a three-year-old child in the back seat of the Ford were killed. The child's 26-year-old mother, 25-year-old father and 29-year-old aunt, also travelling in the car with the youngster, remain in a critical condition at Nepean Hospital. NSW Police Deputy Commissioner Dave Madden today extended his condolences to the family of the three year-old-girl, who was from Bowen Mountain, on Sydney's north western outskirts. "As a result of last night, we will review all our procedures," Mr Madden told reporters. "A critical incident team has been called in and they will investigate what actually occurred." He said this would include the decisions made by the police to pursue the vehicle, what had happened, and existing procedures. "At the same time, the coroner, who's independent of the entire process, attended the scene last night and a full brief will be presented to the coroner to consider all of the action ... (leading to) this tragedy." Mr Madden said the issue of police pursuits were a challenge for the community and for police. "We always ask ourselves the same question, should we actually terminate all pursuits and just not allow them to occur? "The difficulty you have is that in 40 per cent of the cases they (the drivers) are criminals, sometimes murderers, sometimes rapists, sometimes a whole range of other things." Last year, police initiated about 2,100 pursuits and about 15 per cent of those ended in some form of collision. Five people were killed as a result of police pursuits last year, Mr Madden said, "Four of those were either drivers or passengers in vehicles that were being pursued by police, and in one case there was an innocent party." "It comes down to ... do we let the criminals simply drive away, or do we do all that we possibly can to minimise the risk, and that's what we're trying to do. "We have the best procedures in the country, but accidents will occur." Mr Madden said there were no winners when it came to police car chases. "This is a tragedy right across the board," he said. "It's a tragedy for those who were innocently driving along, it's a tragedy for the offender who failed to stop when asked to by the police, it's a tragedy for the police who have to live with this for the rest of their lives." AAP Original article found HERE

This is an interesting one, as there have been numerous instances in Australia (and I'm sure in the rest of the world as well) of serious accidents and road fatalities recorded due to police pursuits of offenders who either failed to stop for traffic infringements or because they were driving stolen vehicles, etc. and often the police get put under the pump for trying to do their job if innocent deaths happen to occur during the course of these pursuits.

On one hand you let the offenders get away if the chase gets too hot, thus meaning that the offender (who may be a murderer but could just as easily be a common car thief or a kid who didn't have his license with him) gets away, which would minimise the risk of a serious collision and/or death for bystanders and offender alike...

...or on the other hand do you pursue the offender at all costs with the sole objective of nailing his ass because the role of police is to enforce the law and it's not their fault if deaths occur in the course of them just doing their job? After all, it's the offender's fault for fleeing in the first place.

Comments?

[Skippy1]

As you say Mem, it's a hard one.

My thoughts are that you can't just let them get away. But there are other ways of dealing with it than driving around like maniacs chasing them. Been a while now, as you know, since I lived in Sydney. But as I remember a lot of the coppers in the Highway Patrol especially, used to be young "gung ho" types. Amazing what a gun on the hip can do to a young blokes demeanor. The police used to be fairly well endowed with choppers, and I expect this is still the case. I can't see the problem with simply taking the cars details and radioing them through to control with a general direction of the vehicle when last seen, then leaving it to the choppers to see where it stops and then send a car aroud to the address. Also just about every major intersection has cameras on them, so the rego could be recorded. In the case of stolen cars, at least the chances of it being recovered in one piece would be greater.

On another topic though Mem, any word about Roamers site?

[khazadman]

And what if the criminal on the run has a kidnapped child hidden in the trunk of the car? Or he just killed three people and has their heads in a bag? Not all runners are just scared of getting a speeding ticket.

[wellard]

Well i'd allow chases for a litle while. Not all chases get totally crazy, but when things do i would rely on the police helicopters like skippy mentioned. But they will need more of them.

Secondly I would make it an automatic 6 months in jail for attempting to flee the police. Hardend criminals might not think twice about that but a lot of people would.

[Stratos]

How high percentage, roughly, of the offenders are drunk or stoned during the car chase? They are bad drivers regardless of wether you chase them or not, and in those cases perhaps it better to try to stop them instead of just following them with a chopper.

[Timber Loftis]

There are limits on "hot pursuits" in most American big cities. Basically, unless the fleeing person poses an immediate danger, hot pursuit should be disengaged.

I think as the "snooper" technology in areas increases (cameras, helicopters, satellite photos, etc.) police chases will not be as needed to catch fleeing criminals.

[Harkoliar]

Hey Memnoch! I just read in the newspaper, they are trying to change the law for those speeding cars because they are only charged (as of now) negligent driving (which is light) and not running away from the police or something. Hopefully the situation in Sydney West will improve. Just been here a couple of months and I heard so many bad things over there already

[pritchke]

Yah, it is a little tricky and a judgment call needs to be made. Much of it depends on what the situation is. I happen to agree with timber technology is improving and high speed chases may be a thing of the past. Hell you can't even speed anymore without getting a fine thanks to those cameras that take pictures of license plates as you pass by.

[ 01-19-2004, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

[Faceman]

You know what I think whenever I see one of these chases?
"WHAT THE HELL HAS HE BEEN TAKING?"
Because if there's one thing I've learned from watching police chases it's "They never get away"
It's the most stupid thing you can do, you'll get busted anyway and are in for numerous additional charges (evading the police, numerous traffic transgressions, maybe some property damage or even involuntary manslaughter or even the infamous felony murder).
So I assume if someone DOES engage in a car chase with the police he either
+ is stupid OR
+ got nothing to lose, because he's already in to deep
Either way these people are dangerous and I sure as hell want them to be nailed ASAP before they pose any other threat to the community.
LEt me tell you a story that happened last year in my town:

A man robs a store for discount international phone calls, and due to his bad luck gets away with a mind-buzzling 2$. Another customer chases him (and due to his training as a professional boxer) finally gets him. The culprit takes out a knife and repeatedly stabs the young man in the chest. However he is able to hold him until the police arrives to arrest him and (thank god) suffers no permanent damage.


Now many people (me too at first) would go about and say: "Why did he let himself stab in the chest for 2$ who weren't even his." But the point is that this criminal had to be busted right away, because he was willing to KILL instead of turning himself in and facing charges which would probably lead to no more than a small fine or 1 day in jail.
The same with people in police chases. They are worth chasing because they are engaging in the chase which makes them dangerous (I'm kinda talking in circles here, but it makes sense to me).
-
On the other hand, I'm completely for lightening up the police chases as long as it is ensured, that the culprit gets caught. Helicopters, lowjack-guns,... should assist in that. Just remember, that in the wrong hands a car can be a weapon and you sure wouldn't want an armed criminal on the loose.

[pritchke]

There was a police chase here once were the guy crased through someones basement apartment and his car landed on a bed. [img]graemlins/evillaughter2.gif[/img] Guess he wanted some sleep.


Anyway noone was hurt except for the criminal.


[ 01-20-2004, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: pritchke ]