Tenser's Transformation woes

[SixOfSpades]

Okay.....a while back, I idly posed the question of whether Tenser's blocked Priest spells as well as Wizard spells for the duration. Someone (I forget who) responded that no, Priest spells can still be used while under Tenser's.

My Wizard party includes both Aerie and a Fighter/Illusionist, so I tested this. My results: ALL spells are blocked, and not only that, but my Fighter/Illusionist was unable to use his ToB Fighter High-Level Abilities! What gives???

[Stratos]

Seems to me that the developers blocked almost everything under Tenser's. But really Fighter HLA as well? Probably an oversight as I see no reason for a F/M under Tenser's shouldn't be able to use them. The purpose of Tenser's is to fight melee.

[ 07-03-2003, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: Stratos ]

[Alson]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: Okay.....a while back, I idly posed the question of whether Tenser's blocked Priest spells as well as Wizard spells for the duration. Someone (I forget who) responded that no, Priest spells can still be used while under Tenser's.

I highly question that statement. Not highly enough to actually test it now, though. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

My Wizard party includes both Aerie and a Fighter/Illusionist, so I tested this. My results: ALL spells are blocked, and not only that, but my Fighter/Illusionist was unable to use his ToB Fighter High-Level Abilities! What gives???

Don't wanna be the one popping your magical bubble, but... the root of the problem (is worthless piece of wood! Oops, wrong context...) is probably, surprisingly enough, BioWare's laziness. Chances are, they're disabling Special Abilities in an effort to prevent possible exploits with Tenser's and some Special Abilities that enable casting. Now, I wonder... oh! What about End Slayer Transformation? That should enable spellcasting! So to prevent a sort-of "cast Tenser's->change to Slayer->end Slayer change=>Fighter/Mages o' Doom effect", they've decided to disable it consummately. Just a speculation, but it seems logical enough. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Dace De'Briago]

Originally posted by Stratos: Seems to me that the developers blocked almost everything under Tenser's. But really Fighter HLA as well? Probably an oversight as I see no reason for a F/M under Tenser's shouldn't be able to use them. The purpose of Tenser's is to fight melee.

Agreed. Could somebody please fix the spell so my L21/22 Fighter/Mage can have 500 hit points, 10 attacks a round and the critical strike ability.

Cheers.

[Vedran]

Spell disabling spells (Tenser, Silence,...) disable all spells and abilities. Which is extremely stupid when your Blade cannot spin his halberd offensively. Yes, he is silenced, so what?

I assume that special abilities are erroneously considered being spells. Is it laziness, cunningness, foolishness or some other ness I can't answer.

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by Alson: "cast Tenser's->change to Slayer->end Slayer change=>Fighter/Mages o' Doom effect"

Good (cheeser! [img]tongue.gif[/img] ) thinking, but I'm not going to give BioWare credit for thinking that far ahead, when they couldn't even write a Jaheira Romance.

I'm for changing Tenser's so that it only blocks Wizard spells, and allows Priest spells and HLAs (correcting the coding on the HLAs if necessary). If some opportunistic Blade wants to abuse the engine and exploit the Slayer change in order to circuvment the rule that Tenser's blocks your Wizard spells, then it'll be pretty difficult to pull that off without the nagging sensation that you're taking advantage of a bug. Besides, at 2 Rep. points per use, I don't think it's a trick that's going to see a lot of use.

(And it's no cheesier--or more powerful--than a Simulacrum under Tenser's, using PfMW scrolls. Can a Simulacrum cast Slayer Change?)

[Alson]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: Good (cheeser! [img]tongue.gif[/img] ) thinking, but I'm not going to give BioWare credit for thinking that far ahead, when they couldn't even write a Jaheira Romance.

Heh - you, of all people, should know where I stand when in comes to giving BioWare undeserved credit. I'm not so sure they actually thought that far - the mere assumption that there might be a Special Ability that could enable casting would presumably be enough of a reason for them.

I'm for changing Tenser's so that it only blocks Wizard spells, and allows Priest spells and HLAs (correcting the coding on the HLAs if necessary).

I was also under the impression that this was necessary - but it's actually much simpler. Load up Near Infinity, and look for SPWI603.SPL (Tenser's Trasformation). The spell has 9 listed abilities - each of them does something different (doubling hit points, lowering THAC0, etc...), but each of them also contains three effects: Disable Wizard Spellcasting, Disable Priest Spellcasting and Disable Innate Spellcastin. Just remove the last two from each of the nine, and it's done. [img]smile.gif[/img]

(And it's no cheesier--or more powerful--than a Simulacrum under Tenser's, using PfMW scrolls. Can a Simulacrum cast Slayer Change?)

Can't argue with that - it's hard being more powerful and cheesy than most Clones tactics. As for Simulacrum using Slayer Change... the clone will have the ability under its Special Abilities, but choosing it will transform the PC, instead. And yes, the rep loss still applies. So it's not a viable option.

[ 07-05-2003, 02:53 AM: Message edited by: Alson ]

[Bruce The Aussie]

Originally posted by Stratos: But really Fighter HLA as well?

HAHAHAHAH!!! sorry...my 17 year old side took over...i'll grow up...


well if you make it so you can use abilities that makes sense but if you also make it so you can use preist spells...i'd raise the spells level as it would make it a damn powerful spell.

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by Alson: Load up Near Infinity, and look for SPWI603.SPL (Tenser's Trasformation). The spell has 9 listed abilities - each of them does something different (doubling hit points, lowering THAC0, etc...), but each of them also contains three effects: Disable Wizard Spellcasting, Disable Priest Spellcasting and Disable Innate Spellcastin. Just remove the last two from each of the nine, and it's done. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Boy, they we so driven to block spellcasting that they felt they had to do it nine times. Goobers!

As for Simulacrum using Slayer Change... the clone will have the ability under its Special Abilities, but choosing it will transform the PC, instead. And yes, the rep loss still applies. So it's not a viable option.

Take back what I said about Slayer Change and replace it with Polymorph Self.

I can see where you're coming from with the Priest spells, Bruce, and I must admit that deleting the "Disable Priest Spells" is of dubious morality. Still, all you've done is take a Cleric/Mage (a force of destruction if there ever was one), and disable the Mage half in exchange for double hitpoints and -4 bonuses to THAC0 and AC. Not really gamebreaking, if you ask me.

[Alson]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: Boy, they we so driven to block spellcasting that they felt they had to do it nine times. Goobers!

Compulsive as one can be, most definitely!

Take back what I said about Slayer Change and replace it with Polymorph Self.

I don't believe Special Abilities stay after Polymorphing, but who knows? BG2 surprised me all-too-many times! I might just try that.

As an aside... Tenser's claims to have a -10 AC maximum. Anyone can validate that one? I never paid any special attention to it, nor have I used Tenser's all that often - but I'm having troubles to believe it was implemented.

[ 07-08-2003, 08:06 AM: Message edited by: Alson ]