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Old 01-27-2003, 02:23 PM   #1
Timber Loftis
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Join Date: July 11, 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
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Touchy subject. So much has been discussed on religion lately, I thought I'd bring abortion into the debate. This is tricky, because so many people find that their religion dictates one thing while other beliefs they hold dictate another.

The Abortion topic sits at the very heart of the "God" question and also tries the very definition of human. After you've answered this very simple poll, please feel free to let us know the following:

1. How you voted (of course)
2. Why
3. Whether that conflicts with your religion's stance on the issue
4. Whether your views change with extenuating circumstances (e.g. you do not support abortion but would support it for rape and incest victims, especially when they are young, or in the cases where the mother's life is in danger).
and
5. (just for s*ts and giggles) Whether or not you support the death penalty and how, if at all, you see that relative to your abortion stance.

Hope this generates worthwhile debate. I will note I have not posted on this before because it is one of the touchiest subjects out there. But, the level of maturity on this community leaves me hopeful.

Pax
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Old 01-27-2003, 02:29 PM   #2
Timber Loftis
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FYI - TL voted pro-choice. I certainly lean that way, though "undecided" may be a better stance, as I'm not ironclad in this belief.

The philosophy I've read throughout my life, including all great thinkers I've run across and religious texts I've run across, tells me that non-abortion is the more appropriate moral choice. No crap. And the reasons are many but boil down to this: I humans are evolving into *something*, then removing a possible contributor to that evolution/maturation is counter-productive.

But, I realize that this stance flies out the window when it's my 15-yr-old daughter. Therefore, this is one of the very rare instances when I let my prejudices and preferences override my moral philosophy.

Plus, as many of you are well aware, I am also "pro-death." Not as is "pro-choice," but really, I'm pro-death. I think the world is overpopulated, and while I am saddened that it happens for the individuals involved, I think larger amounts of human death than we currently have are needed to maintain the balance. With a new New York City's worth of people added to the planet every year, I think we are on a collision course. Different topic, I know, but it certainly sways my position on this issue.
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Old 01-27-2003, 02:30 PM   #3
Talthyr Malkaviel
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Join Date: August 31, 2001
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Hmmm... I voted pro-choice, but still I think this thread will be closed.
I tried this topic once, and in the opening post stated that participants should keep it calm and not to flame, but even so it was locked du to the potential mayhem it could have caused.
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Old 01-27-2003, 02:32 PM   #4
Timber Loftis
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Well, I'm hoping the "no religious debate" ban lift will apply here, since it's essentially the same thing. If mods are opposed to this thread, I humbly request you let it live long enough to see if we can handle it.
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Old 01-27-2003, 02:33 PM   #5
Horatio
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1) Undecided.
2) Because, quite possibly, I'm undecided. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
3) Roman Catholic, so yes, it does.
4) of course I would support it in extreme cicumstances. They are, after all, 'extreme' and therefore call for extreme measures.
5) Undecided on that too.

Note: I know that certain groups use this phrase, but 'pro-life' kind of causes biased views. Couldn't you have used something else? [img]tongue.gif[/img]
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Old 01-27-2003, 02:36 PM   #6
Timber Loftis
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Horatio, both "Pro-life" and "Pro-choice" are phrased to highlight the positive in their stance. I used these because they are common terminology. Also, "anti-choice" and "anti-life" would have been rather insulting.
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Old 01-27-2003, 02:42 PM   #7
Attalus
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Join Date: November 26, 2001
Location: Texas
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I'm Episcopalian, so we are not so rigid on the whole issue, feeling that it should be an open possibility. I am also a physician who saw a beautiful 20 year old girl die from a botched illegal abortion when I was in training. I would like to have it be a more difficult procedure to obtain, though, like with getting a license to drive. There should at least be mandantory counseling. As for the death penalty, I also feel it is justified, for the state should have the option of removing people who are just too dangerous to live, like Timothy McVea.

[ 01-27-2003, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: Attalus ]
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Old 01-27-2003, 02:44 PM   #8
realbinky
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Join Date: March 14, 2001
Location: Milford, MA 01757
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1,2) Pro-choice, but with a caveat. I think it should be LEGAL, and that a woman's (or a couple's) choice is up to them. That said, I don't think I or my wife could ever have done it and not been mental cases afterwards. We did have 2 kids. My wife wanted more, I wanted only 1. I agree with TL's over-population statement. Families having 3,4,6 kids is not a good idea. That doesn't mean that I think others can't choose for themselves.
3) I'm currently agnostic, but no. I was raised Roman Catholic, so yes (every sperm is sacred). My wife is/was methodist, I have no idea.
4) No, although I have stated that I don't think I could do it.
5) Pro-death penalty, so no conflict here.
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Old 01-27-2003, 02:48 PM   #9
Cloudbringer
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Join Date: March 1, 2001
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Timber, I expect you to keep an eye on this thread as you've started it. it's apparent from your initial post that you realize how extremely sensitive the issues are and in order to keep it going, the thread needs to stay civil.

At the first sign that anyone is unable to remain respectful of other posters, the mods will have to step in. So keep watch, please.
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Old 01-27-2003, 02:51 PM   #10
Timber Loftis
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Wow. Surely there are some pro-lifers out there.
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