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Old 07-02-2002, 11:48 AM   #101
Yorick
Very Mad Bird
 

Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 46
Posts: 9,226
Quote:
Originally posted by Silver Cheetah:

It seems to me that the stock market at its worst is little more than a giant casino (I said at its worst...)
Definitely, but a recession can be talked up or talked down. Consumer confidence or lack of it, it the key. If enough people - in fear, don't spend - the economy collapses.
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Old 07-02-2002, 11:51 AM   #102
Silver Cheetah
Fzoul Chembryl
 

Join Date: July 26, 2001
Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 1,781
Quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
I have no idea why the people in Enron would have invested so heavily in their own companies stock...unless it was greed and they thought they could pull off an AOL like profit...

As for the college discussion...I never went to college. I left highschool after graduation (grade 12) and since I had no money and a father determined that I would make it on my own at all costs,
Couple of things, Mag.. On the Enron front, from what I've read, I understand that the company themselves were very keen on employees investing in their stock, and gave incentives for them to do so. Anyone know more?

You said something there that rang a bell for me 'a father determined that I would make it on my own at all costs'. Yes, exactly. That's such an important factor! I find that everyone who has done the pulling themselves up by own bootstraps thing has had some kind of key motivating influence at an early age (or later stage). In my case, it was my grandmother, who opened up the world to me, and taught me I could do anything I wanted. Some people don't have a family member, but met someone along the way who acts as a mentor. Sometimes it's a teacher, sometimes just an amazing person who comes into their life, and who maybe acts as role model, advisor or whatever. It's really hard to come from nothing, a very bad environment, and to go to school with peers from the same place, (peer pressure to be in a certain way) and then somehow turn that into gold, both financially and on a personal level with no help. Some schools are great, and really help kids. Some really dont, or can't, because the environments the kids come from are just too horrendous, and there is little that can be done in the school situation.

Growth needs nurturing, and some people just don't get that. Right enough, you can nurture some people all you want, and they still don't really take root and blossom, for whatever reasons, but just because it doesn't work with everyone, I don't feel that's a reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

State help, to my mind, evens out the playing field, and opens up opportunity to more people. If some don't choose to take advantage, well, that's there look out. It doesn't mean the system is crap though.

[ 07-02-2002, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: Silver Cheetah ]
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Old 07-02-2002, 11:51 AM   #103
Silver Cheetah
Fzoul Chembryl
 

Join Date: July 26, 2001
Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 1,781
Quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
quote:
Originally posted by Silver Cheetah:

It seems to me that the stock market at its worst is little more than a giant casino (I said at its worst...)
Definitely, but a recession can be talked up or talked down. Consumer confidence or lack of it, it the key. If enough people - in fear, don't spend - the economy collapses.[/QUOTE]That is also true!
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Old 07-07-2002, 12:52 AM   #104
Leonis
Symbol of Cyric
 

Join Date: March 6, 2001
Location: Somewhere on Earth - it changes often
Posts: 1,292
Quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
quote:
Originally posted by Leonis:
SNIP......Telco stories......SNIP
So you uncovered unethical business practices, and rather than blow the whistle to do something about it you just tucked tail and left? Things like that need to be brought to light.

I personally worked for Sprint PCS when they first went to market in washington DC with this nations first ever Digital PCS system. I had access to all the billing practices and anything that was kept on the computer systems. (I was one of 6 Senior Systems people) Now I can say that we did everything possible to make sure our billing was accurate. However, I cannot tel you how many thousands of people tried to rip us off. We had people calling us with bogus complaints, lies and non-payment of legitimate bills......Our policy was to be polite and if nothing else would placate the irate customer give them an amount of free service. Oh yeah we occasionally ttok some people to court but these were big time scam artists. All in all sounds like out telephone system is a bit different.

When you uncover dishonest dealings if you don't do something about it...you are part of the problem...we each have an obligation to fix things when we see they are wrong
[/QUOTE]Man, a dangerous and unbased assumption here MagiK.
For the record (and I need to be carefull what I say here), I contacted a relevant authority anonimously (who knows what these people are capable of) and sought out and encouraged like minded co-workers to do the same.
I had to exercise caution though. Basically I used to get really bored (very little to do - more ineptitude on their part, not mine) and so would trawl through the servers looking for interesting stuff to read - mainly tech info so I could tell certain 'techies' what to do when the system went down (I was customer services)
One day I found all these VERY sensitive docs and memos - read them all and then had to think about what to do - copy them? email them? - in the meantime my access was discovered (using a different log in because I needed internet access) and the files locked or deleted.

So I only had my own word - no way I would go up against them like that. So I told who I needed to tell.
As far as I know, investigations started around that time, possibly due to my friends and my 'tip off'. And the company came down eventually. Sadly that hurt alot of employees and investors too (some of whom are my friends)

Please be carefull in accusations without reason MagiK, as it can be hurtfull. I didn't want to post that here but had to clear it up because of the way I looked after your post.
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Old 07-07-2002, 02:50 AM   #105
Yorick
Very Mad Bird
 

Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 46
Posts: 9,226
Quote:
Originally posted by Leonis:
Man, a dangerous and unbased assumption here MagiK.
For the record (and I need to be carefull what I say here), I contacted a relevant authority anonimously (who knows what these people are capable of) and sought out and encouraged like minded co-workers to do the same.
I had to exercise caution though. Basically I used to get really bored (very little to do - more ineptitude on their part, not mine) and so would trawl through the servers looking for interesting stuff to read - mainly tech info so I could tell certain 'techies' what to do when the system went down (I was customer services)
One day I found all these VERY sensitive docs and memos - read them all and then had to think about what to do - copy them? email them? - in the meantime my access was discovered (using a different log in because I needed internet access) and the files locked or deleted.

So I only had my own word - no way I would go up against them like that. So I told who I needed to tell.
As far as I know, investigations started around that time, possibly due to my friends and my 'tip off'. And the company came down eventually. Sadly that hurt alot of employees and investors too (some of whom are my friends)

Please be carefull in accusations without reason MagiK, as it can be hurtfull. I didn't want to post that here but had to clear it up because of the way I looked after your post.
I'll back that up. Truly said.

I agree that assumptions are not a good thing too.
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