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Old 06-12-2003, 11:59 AM   #1
Donut
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I often wonder what will be done with the 680 odd prisoners in Guantanamo Bay. Supposedly most can't be returned to their countries as they would likely rejoin Al Qaeda. The can't be moved to mainland prisons because I would imagine they would then be given protected under US laws on human rights etc. They can't be held in Camp X-Ray for ever because of the costs involved. So what is to be done with them?

This is an ominous development:


Camp X-Ray plans chamber of death
By Joe Murphy, Whitehall Editor, Evening Standard
11 June 2003

Britain is making urgent appeals to the United States after it emerged that a death chamber is being planned at Guantanamo Bay.

American military officials confirmed they have drawn up blueprints for an execution room at the "Camp X-Ray" Cuban military base where eight Britons are among hundreds of suspected Muslim terrorist prisoners.

MPs warned of an international outcry if any of the captives were executed without a proper trial and right of appeal.

A Foreign Office minister confirmed there was "a fundamental disagreement" with the US over the use of the death penalty for prisoners-of-war. Mike O'Brien told MPs: "Our overriding objective is to avoid the execution of any British nationals.

"We will express our opposition to the death penalty and its use on a British national at whatever stage and level appropriate, from the moment when the imposition of the death penalty on a British national becomes a possibility."

US Navy officials are renovating a building to serve as a courtroom for military-style trials of suspected al Qaeda prisoners. They confirmed they have also discussed building a death chamber nearby, although construction is awaiting orders from President George Bush.

A total of 680 prisoners - described as "unlawful combatants" by the US - are held, mainly from Afghanistan. Shortly after the September 11 terror attacks in New York, Mr Bush gave the go-ahead for the first military commission trials by a western power since the aftermath of the Second World War.

A Downing Street spokesman said the Government had made clear to the US that Britons should be spared the death penalty. "The UK position on the death penalty is widely known and clearly understood," he said.

Labour MP Graham Allen, a leading critic of the war in Iraq, said any executions would cause a worldwide outcry. "It will be another huge propaganda coup for al Qaeda," he said. "President Bush must make clear immediately that the rule of law will prevail, not a kangaroo court."

Major John Smith, of the US Air Force, an attorney and spokesman for the military commissions, said the outcry was "premature". He insisted: "No decision has been made as to where an execution would take place, if appropriate."

But Lesley Warner, London-based media director of Amnesty International, said the rights of detainees had already been flouted. "Many have been there for over a year without charge or trial. We are very concerned about the building of a death chamber."

A death sentence would require a unanimous decision by a seven-member commission, and would have to be upheld by a review panel of three military officers, one of whom must have a background as a judge.

That panel would make a recommendation to US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld who would send his own recommendation to President Bush, who could grant a reprieve.

[ 06-12-2003, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: Donut ]
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Old 06-12-2003, 12:28 PM   #2
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Yup, bet them scummy americans are just gona line them up and shoot them for no reason at all.....Or perhaps...maybe they could get sharks with lasers on their heads [img]smile.gif[/img] and feed them prisoners [img]smile.gif[/img] ...


Ok seriously...I hadn't heard anything about just executing the left over prisioners. Anyone else see anything about this?
 
Old 06-12-2003, 12:32 PM   #3
Leonis
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No. But why is the term "kangaroo court"? Kangaroo's are pretty smart and they can kill a man with a single swipe of their hind legs... oh.
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Old 06-12-2003, 01:11 PM   #4
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Whether or not they are executing them, Guantanamo Bay is among the most egregious of civil rights violations in the modern era. Held without legal counsel with no levelled charges, no right to a trial, trials that are held will be held in secret, no right of habeas corpus, and not even according the prisoners "prisoner of war" status. If Bush and BigRepug.Co ever become a Nationalistic regime, this the biggest of their first steps. It stinks and is rotten and makes me ashamed.
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Old 06-12-2003, 01:24 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
Whether or not they are executing them, Guantanamo Bay is among the most egregious of civil rights violations in the modern era. Held without legal counsel with no levelled charges, no right to a trial, trials that are held will be held in secret, no right of habeas corpus, and not even according the prisoners "prisoner of war" status. If Bush and BigRepug.Co ever become a Nationalistic regime, this the biggest of their first steps. It stinks and is rotten and makes me ashamed.

So...if this all so egregious, heinous, outrageous, unlawful, illegal, mean, bad, nasty and down right major bad karma...where are the: Supreme court? the Attourney General, The FBI, and every other law enforcement agency? Why is there not commando raids on Camp X-ray from all free and offended nations?? Where are those members of your own profession who's job it is to defend the opressed masses?

Personally I think it was ruled okie doke and legal and people just refuse to accept it...it is easier to claim a "vast right wing conspiracy" and a Corrupt administration..than to admit...that this never fell under the guidelines some people wanted it to. Just my opinion guy...
 
Old 06-12-2003, 01:39 PM   #6
Timber Loftis
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Quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
So...if this all so egregious, heinous, outrageous, unlawful, illegal, mean, bad, nasty and down right major bad karma...where are the: Supreme court? the Attourney General, The FBI, and every other law enforcement agency?
Either in on the take, cowering in the corner, or pretending not to notice, obviously. C'mon, do you really expect Rhenquist, Scalia, O'Connor and Thomas to uphold civil liberties in a case that pits likely terrorists against the administration? As Robert Bork laments, the hijacking of the Courts by politics, be it to liberal or conservative ends, interjects and prevents them from actually doing their job and APPLYING the law.

They have been held since Afghanistan with no trial, no charges, no nothing. Imagine that. Nowhere in the world should we stand for that. There are rules regarding how we treat prisoners of war and rules regarding how we treat civilian prisoners. To argue niether applies is blatantly silly.

Either we got the goods on 'em or we are violating their rights. I think relatives in Afghanistan should flood us with habeas corpus ("produce the body") writs. This is one of the oldest ideas in the theory of justice. Surely you can't defend this behavior. Go ahead, try.
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Old 06-12-2003, 02:11 PM   #7
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It's been pretty common knowledge since the beginning of the war in Afghanistan that terrorists convicted of terrorism would face the death penalty, so I don't think this story lends itself to even hinting at a "final solution", in its infamous historic context, for all the prisoners still in custody.

Now with that said, I do believe those at Camp X-Ray have been held too long. I'll admit to being unsure as to their exact rights as illegal combatants, but it's my right as a citizen to know what is being done and why. Something has to be done with them, and that something should be made public.

As the old saying goes, "it's time to fish or cut bait***."
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Old 06-12-2003, 02:12 PM   #8
Attalus
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Well, they aren't U.S. Citizens, so how could they have civil rights? Aren't they prisoners of war?
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Old 06-12-2003, 02:32 PM   #9
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Remember, the whole argument for legally keeping them indefinitely is that they are not POWs but are, instead, illegal combatants. POWs have certain rights under the Geneva Convention that have not been extended to inmates at Camp X-Ray.

I continue to believe that they do not qualify as prisoners of war, and their initial incarceration was completely justified, but I also know that the time has come to do something other than hold them.
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Old 06-12-2003, 03:33 PM   #10
Timber Loftis
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POWs would have rights under the Geneva and other conventions.

Even non-citizens would have rights under the US Constitution. There is a large body of law about what rights they have and which ones they don't. It is clear that habeas corpus and a right to know the charges against them and recieve a fair trial are the bare-bones minimum, and even non-citizens would and SHOULD have these rights.

The argument is that they are not POWs but are "illegal combatants" (which is bovine scattology), and that they cannot use constitutional rights as they are not within the US borders (more bovine scattology). It is an abuse of military and political power.

Keeping them for a reasonable period to extract info was understandable in the interests of national security (the "trump card" when it comes to ignoring rights). That excuse is old, moldy, and stinky now.
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