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Old 11-19-2004, 05:00 AM   #1
Grojlach
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And in other news, Kerry is up and running again. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Senate approves debt limit increase

WASHINGTON — A divided Senate approved an $800 billion increase in the federal debt limit Wednesday.

Sen. John Kerry and other Democrats blamed the major boost in borrowing on the fiscal policies of President Bush.

The 52-44 vote, mostly along party lines, is expected to be followed by House passage today. Enactment would raise the government's borrowing limit to $8.18 trillion — more than eight times the total federal debt that existed when Ronald Reagan took office in 1981.

In his first remarks on the Senate floor since his presidential bid ended in defeat two weeks ago, Kerry said his former opponent had presided over “the worst fiscal turnaround in our nation's entire history.”

He was referring to the change from the $5.6 trillion in surpluses that was projected for the next 10 years when Bush took office in 2001 to the $2.3 trillion in deficits now estimated for the coming decade.

“This can be called a birth tax, a birth tax that is dumped on the back of every American child unwillingly,” said Kerry, who voted against the borrowing increase.

Republican senators did not join in the debate, underscoring how politically uncomfortable the measure is for them.

That discomfort was highlighted when they refused to bring the bill to a vote before the election.

Administration officials urged lawmakers to act quickly. The government reached its $7.38 trillion borrowing cap last month, and since then the Treasury Department has paid federal bills by taking cash from a civil service retirement account, which it plans to repay.

Failure to raise the debt ceiling could force a default and leave the government unable to pay Social Security recipients, federal workers and other obligations.
Source: KansasCity.com
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Old 11-19-2004, 05:55 AM   #2
Yorick
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This is unbelievable. Unbelievable. I can't believe people actually voted for this government!! Completely ignoring the total inability of the current government to balance the flipping books!!

How do you get to 800 billion dollars OVERBUDGET?! Who hires these people?

How does the American public get to the point where a 455 billion deficit means nothing? Do they even watch the deficit against China grow each year?

Now it's going to head towards 800 billion?????????

How does one spell "Recession" and "Great Depression".

[ 11-19-2004, 05:56 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]
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Old 11-19-2004, 05:57 AM   #3
Yorick
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If that were a company the CEO would have been fired. A liquidator would have come in and shut down unnecessary expenses, like wars and occupations, and tax breaks for the super rich.
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Old 11-19-2004, 06:32 AM   #4
machinehead
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We seem to have a choice between "tax and spend" Democrats and "spend but don't tax" Republicans - choose your poison. Both parties disgust me.
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Old 11-19-2004, 11:59 AM   #5
Timber Loftis
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Quote:
A divided Senate approved an $800 billion increase in the federal debt limit Wednesday.
[img]graemlins/whackya.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/gore.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/beheaded.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/whackya.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/gore.gif[/img]

So, let me get this straight. The Republicans wouldn't debate it, many have said they do not support current spending. It goes against what they tell voters they stand for. Kerry wouldn't vote for it.

So, the administration wants -- the administration gets. In the end, who voted for the damned thing??? Apparently, 52 people did something they were embarrassed to do. Flippin stupid, all this crap. We should go drag 'em out on the lawn and take paddles to them for being bad boys and girls.

Any government should go bankrupt rather than run a deficit. Wish we had Clinton around to shut down the government. Send all of D.C. home and you'll see the congressmen actually start to do something!! Quit spending any money on the troops, then they'll get their act in line!! We'll see several billions in airline bailout money get put to better use all of a sudden!! Planned multimillion dollar pork barrel bike paths in Austin will suddenly get dumped!!

Outline of Plan to Decrease Deficit.
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Old 11-19-2004, 01:26 PM   #6
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November 19, 2004
Greenspan Says U.S. Deficits Pose a Risk
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 11:22 a.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) --The persistence of bloated U.S. trade deficits over time can pose a risk to the U.S. economy, which thus far has proven resilient, Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan warned Friday. Policy-makers must not get lulled into a sense of complacency, he said.

The broadest measure of trade, called the current account deficit, swelled to an all-time high of $166.2 billion in the second quarter of this year, the most recent period for which this information is available.

``Current account imbalances, per se, need not be a problem, but cumulative deficits ... raise more complex issues,'' Greenspan said in speech in Frankfurt, Germany. A copy of his remarks was distributed in Washington.

So far, foreigners are willing to lend the United States money to finance the current account imbalances, Greenspan pointed out. The worry, however, is that at some point foreigners might suddenly lose interest in holding dollar-denominated investments. That could cause foreigners to unload investments in U.S. stocks and bonds, sending their prices plunging and interest rates soaring.

The sliding value of the U.S. dollar has made some private economists more concerned about this potential risk.

``It seems persuasive that, given the size of the U.S. current account deficit, a diminished appetite for adding to dollar balances must occur at some point,'' Greenspan said. ``But when, through what channels and from what level of the dollar? Regrettably, no answer to those questions is convincing,'' he said.

On Wall Street, stocks fell after Greenspan's warning. The Dow Jones industrials were off 106 points in morning trading.

The U.S. dollar has been persistently weak against the euro -- the currency used by 12 European countries. The dollar had dropped to a new record low against the euro on Thursday before bouncing back. The dollar fell again after Greenspan's speech.

The dollar's slide has been good for U.S. manufacturers because it makes their goods less expensive in foreign markets. But the corresponding rise of the euro makes European goods more expensive in foreign markets.

Greenspan, in his speech, did not specifically discuss the value of the dollar. Although he said that forecasting exchange rates ``has a success rate no better than that of forecasting the outcome of a coin toss.''

In his speech, Greenspan also didn't discuss the future course of interest rate policy in the United States.

Wanting to keep inflation from becoming a danger to the economy, Fed policy-makers last week boosted short-term interest rates for a fourth time this year. The action left a key rate, called the federal funds rate, at 2 percent. The funds rate is the Fed primary tool for influencing economic activity.

With recent signs that inflation is heating up again after a long cool spell, economists believe the chances are increasing that the Fed will raise rates again at its last meeting of the year on Dec. 14.

President Bush says the best ways to handle the yawning trade deficits is to get other countries to remove trading barriers and open their markets to U.S. companies. Democrats, including John Kerry, Bush's former rival for the presidency, have blamed Bush's free-trade policies for the loss of U.S. jobs.

Greenspan said that although there's been evidence that ``among developed countries, current account deficits, even large ones, have been diffused without significant consequences, we cannot become complacent.''

Reducing the U.S. federal budget deficit, Greenspan said, would be an important action to boost U.S. savings. Continued flexibility in the U.S. economy also has been important in the economy's ability to absorb and rebound from economic shocks, he said.

In a question and answer period after his speech, Greenspan said central bank intervention in currency markets to support the dollar -- such as through buying dollars to drive up its exchange rate -- could have only a limited and short-term effect.

``Obviously we have looked at the issue of the impact of monetary authority intervention in the dollar for purposes of sustaining exchange rates quite closely, and our interest is obviously focused on its impact on exchange rates and interest rates,'' Greenspan said. ``Our general conclusion is that the impact has been moderate, not especially large, but clearly visible.''

Treasury Secretary John Snow, in comments earlier this week, appeared to rule out intervention, saying markets must set exchange rates. But private economists have said that other countries might be interested in taking action.
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Old 11-19-2004, 02:49 PM   #7
Chewbacca
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Obviously a balanced budget and fiscal responsibility aren't moral values to the majority like they are in my household.


Great link to the Libertarians T.L.! I too am a conservative liberal, or is that liberal conservative? ....Nah, just Libertarian

[ 11-19-2004, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]
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Old 11-23-2004, 04:53 AM   #8
Yorick
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And where are the Bush supporters? Why have they not answered this thread? What have you guys got to say about this? 6 replies??? Is an 800 billion dollar deficit not important? Have you heard of the great depression???

John D Harris?
Cerek?

C'mon, speak up lads.
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Old 11-23-2004, 10:21 AM   #9
Timber Loftis
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They are simply embarrassed about it, as are all the Repug Congressmen. NRO is happy to take issue with it though -- one of the few things it trounces Bush for.

He just promised Columbia 3 billion yesterday for the drug war, of course. Let's see how many billions he spends today. Frikkin Paris Hilton with daddy's credit card.
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Old 11-23-2004, 10:33 AM   #10
Timber Loftis
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In this year's budget, Congress had a 0.8% cut in spending to federal agencies. 0-point-frikkin-8 percent. Well, let's not tighten that belt too much!

The appropriations bill includes $20 billion for the Department of the Interior, the U.S. Forest Service, and certain research programs at the Department of Energy. In other words: Timber, Oil, and Power Plant Subsidies NOT LEFT BEHIND!
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