Ethics and Parents...Please Respond - Page 4

Neb · 03-01-2002, 07:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Wedin:

"Of course, I know people who lost their virginity at the age of 14 (or earlier than that). It did cause them no harm. They are all a buch of assholes, but that they were before too."

IT DID CAUSE THEM NO HARM! Read it more closeley! I never said they SHOULD do it! It just isn't dangerous! Argh!

You were advertising it as something "good" by saying: "It did cause them no harm." Therefore I thought you were "in favour" of it.

Garnet FalconDance · 03-01-2002, 07:53 PM

I agree that *just because* someone is a teenager, they are not automatically less than human somehow and so have no 'rights'.

BUT with 'rights' come that funny little oft forgotten word called 'responsibility'. Now as an adult, I have been forced to not only face but accept responsibility to a great deal more 'rights' than several of you, it would seem. As a parent, I have definitely accepted more responsibility.

Does this make me infallible? Some sort of omnipotent being? Of course not.

Wedin, it is not that I disregard your opinion because it runs diametrically opposite from mine. But it would seem that you advocate doing things just because without 1) thought for the possible consequences, 2) consideration for others, and 3) any sort of respect for your parents/other advisors in your life. *This* is the sort of thought that often leads to early drug abuse, unplanned pregnancies, and a host of other troubles.

I realize that teens are experimenting with their new-found emerging selves. But as an adult who has earned the 'rights' and accepted the responsibility those 'rights' require for execution, I believe I can safely say I know a great deal more of certain subjects than a teenager. And this is one of those subjects.

Tarox · 03-01-2002, 08:04 PM

We only have 60-80years of life in us all...you have to do all the fun things in life as soon as you can, because before you know it, your life is over and you are married with kids and life is boring and the fun exiting things are no more.

As long as no one catches anything, gets pregnant, becomes addicted et.c et.c I think it's ok, knock yourself out [img]smile.gif[/img]
The more you try and control and dictate a teenagers life, the more they are likely to rebel and do what "they" want and opposite of you.
Understanding and being open is the key I think (or hope)

I still can't see what is exactly wrong with your son seeing this girl..if he reads this then, I'm sure he'll be pissed off that rather than talk to him you talked to loads of people on here...good luck

Garnet FalconDance · 03-01-2002, 08:15 PM

I don't know if he read it or not, but I do know he is aware I posted something. To answer your question, the situation is convoluted---and I do not plan to fully go into it here precisely because I do not wish to air *all* the laundry and embarass him. The girl is family also, seems to view him as some sort of trophy conquest for that simple fact, and in a previous situation involving her, he deliberately lied and totally disrespected not only us but another parent *and* her father with his actions.

THAT, not his 'right' to live life dangerously and to the fullest at such a young age, is the issue at hand. Trust and how far a parent should go to keep their child (yes, child!) as safe as is reasonable.

He is, I repeat, a good kid. It is my responsibility to guide him to ensure he has the moral compass with which to continue his life in a manner that does as little true damage as possible. I realize that making mistakes is a vital part of growing up, but I also know that if we are not taught 'right' from 'wrong', we tend to struggle a great deal more than is necessary or desireable--and that tends to degrade the remainder of that relatively short 60-80 years alloted to us.

Downunda · 03-01-2002, 08:24 PM

The first thing I'm gonna say is that there is no "right" way to bring up a child, I can think of many "wrong" ways to raise a child but this will never happen to any parent that loves their child, as you obviously do.
One thing you've got to realize is that you can't protect them every second of every day. What happens when they leave home without having learnt from their mistakes because mum and dad have always been there to stop them before they make any. IMO you should treat him as an equal, have a family meeting or whatever and tell him your veiws and opinions but ultimately let him make his own decision. Most importantly however, let him know that you'll always be there for him if he needs you.
Always think worst case scenario; in this case I can imagine it being the girl getting pregnant - not something I'd wish on any teenager. Bring this up with him.
Make a family environment in which he doesn't feel he needs to go behind your back.
I left home when I was 16 (because I knew best and mum was just being a bitch! *at least that's what I thought at the time*). Three and a half months later I humbly crawled home, with a new found respect for what my parents were doing. I'd learnt more in three months on my own than in three years living at home. I'm not saying that this is what your son should do but just that he might be better learning some things himself.
Please don't take this as gospel as I am only basing it on my personal experiences, just wanted to post my opinion [img]smile.gif[/img]

03-02-2002, 11:10 AM

I haven't read through all the responses in this thread, but having already raised a son (he is 21 today [img]smile.gif[/img] ) I can tell you that you MUST do these three things...

#1) Teach him about the dangers of sexually transmitted diseases!!

#2) Make sure he has access to condoms, knows how to use them, and knows they can break!!!

#3) Let the boy live his life as he grows up...he will need to feel that he can be responsible for himself as he enters into adulthood and constant interferring can make him feel inadequate or build a wall between him and you that may never be brought down.

Best of Luck [img]smile.gif[/img]

P.S. I gave my son two rules in life: 1) have fun and 2) be careful.
I educated him at an early age about the dangers of doing drugs, smoking (pot and cigarettes), drinking alcohol, and having unprotected sex...he tried things, as all teenagers are likely to but before he turned 16 it was decided (by him) that drugs, smoking and alcohol were not going to be factors in his life. He has a great girlfriend that he's been seeing for the last two years and it is doubtful I'll ever see any grandchildren from them since they both put responsibility for themselves in front of everything and don't see a baby in the mix for a few more years if ever. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: Moni ]

03-02-2002, 11:33 AM

You might also want to relate this story of a teenage friend of mine:

I had this freind for many years as a kid and into the teenage years. She was facinated with the idea of having sex and experimented with men of all ages once she became old enough (13).

When her target (at the age of 16) became a 13 year old boy from the town's baseball team we all told her to stay away from him, he was just a kid, it was wrong, etc. etc.
She didn't listen and not only seduced him but got pregnant by him thinking he would become a major league ball player and she would have it made, having saddled him with the responsibility of a baby and herself.
He was only 13!!!

She ended up breaking it off with him when he turned 16 and began seeing the world through eyes other than her own, making decisions for himself and (of course) considering the possibility of a future with a woman closer to his own age.

She made him take their little girl so that she could go on with her life. (they had both been attending school and working part time to support the child while living in their respective homes while they finished growing up and at 19 she moved away from everyone and everything)

He and his mother raised the little girl but not without heartaches and trouble since his mom was disabled and he was uneducated, having to drop out of school and work full time to support the three of them.

The main word here....BEWARE!
The consequeses of actions during your teen years can have far reaching effects, not just for you, but for those you care for as well.

Talthyr Malkaviel · 03-02-2002, 11:50 AM

A lot of people are saying that teenagers don't know the dangers, and trust me, they do know the dangers, they know exactly what they are doing to themselves, if that stuff is happening to them, it's usually more correct to say they don't care.
Trust me, when I was getting taught this stuff at school (Sexual education, drugs etc.) no-one in my class listened.. ever, because we already knew, and were aware of what it could lead to, they still did it though.
I think that teenagers all go through this stage for a reason, like the saying 'you learn from your mistakes' and that is why adults act the way they do, because they have been through it, hopefully got through it and moved on, and they don't want to see their child go down the same path no matter how necessary/inevitable it is, even if it's a not so big thing.
If a child is too overprotected they won't have a clue about the real world, and will be more vulnerable to subscept to such things, but not knowing the dangers would be more prone to get in a real bad way about it.

Just my long rambling two pence.

03-02-2002, 12:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Talthyr Malkaviel:
A lot of people are saying that teenagers don't know the dangers, and trust me, they do know the dangers, they know exactly what they are doing to themselves, if that stuff is happening to them, it's usually more correct to say they don't care.
Trust me, when I was getting taught this stuff at school (Sexual education, drugs etc.) no-one in my class listened.. ever, because we already knew, and were aware of what it could lead to, they still did it though.
I think that teenagers all go through this stage for a reason, like the saying 'you learn from your mistakes' and that is why adults act the way they do, because they have been through it, hopefully got through it and moved on, and they don't want to see their child go down the same path no matter how necessary/inevitable it is, even if it's a not so big thing.
If a child is too overprotected they won't have a clue about the real world, and will be more vulnerable to subscept to such things, but not knowing the dangers would be more prone to get in a real bad way about it.

Just my long rambling two pence.

I think when the lessons come from the parents kids do listen more than when they come from the schools. Sitting your kids down and discussing these things with them comes with a benefit the schools can't offer...it lets the kids know that their parents care and that goes a long way toward opening doors of communication between teens and their parents as we all grow older (together or not...my son and I have lived hundreds of miles apart since he was 18 and we still communicate like best friends).

Your last paragraph speaks volumes. [img]smile.gif[/img]
I learned life's hard lessons about using drugs and drinking alcohol the hardest way possible simply because my parents never talked to me about them.

[ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: Moni ]

Talthyr Malkaviel · 03-02-2002, 12:10 PM

That's what I mean, schools won't teach you anything new, parents have a better chance because although children will think 'they don't understand' they probably do, and are just looking out for their child, it's just that the child will shrug this off becuase they know the dangers, but naturally parents will worry that something may lead on to something worse, luckily the child usually knows boundaries (I sure do) and won't overstep them, whatever the peer pressure, it just depends what the child is like and most aren't going to get themselves killed doing something stupid.
I think the important thing is for the parent to understand that even if you think they are 'only teenagers' they now you are looking out for them, and you have to trust them to set their own limits, if they set their minds on doing the really bad things, they probably will, and being stricter won't help, be open with them, let them discover for themselves and they will come to see for themselves what they will and won't do in the future.

Two more rambling shiny pennies.

03-01-2002, 07:48 PM	#31
Neb Account deleted by Request Join Date: May 17, 2001 Location: . Age: 38 Posts: 8,802	quote: Originally posted by Wedin: "Of course, I know people who lost their virginity at the age of 14 (or earlier than that). It did cause them no harm. They are all a buch of assholes, but that they were before too." IT DID CAUSE THEM NO HARM! Read it more closeley! I never said they SHOULD do it! It just isn't dangerous! Argh! You were advertising it as something "good" by saying: "It did cause them no harm." Therefore I thought you were "in favour" of it.

03-01-2002, 07:53 PM	#32
Garnet FalconDance Mephistopheles Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: deep within the sylvan splendor.... Age: 60 Posts: 1,443	I agree that just because someone is a teenager, they are not automatically less than human somehow and so have no 'rights'. BUT with 'rights' come that funny little oft forgotten word called 'responsibility'. Now as an adult, I have been forced to not only face but accept responsibility to a great deal more 'rights' than several of you, it would seem. As a parent, I have definitely accepted more responsibility. Does this make me infallible? Some sort of omnipotent being? Of course not. Wedin, it is not that I disregard your opinion because it runs diametrically opposite from mine. But it would seem that you advocate doing things just because without 1) thought for the possible consequences, 2) consideration for others, and 3) any sort of respect for your parents/other advisors in your life. This is the sort of thought that often leads to early drug abuse, unplanned pregnancies, and a host of other troubles. I realize that teens are experimenting with their new-found emerging selves. But as an adult who has earned the 'rights' and accepted the responsibility those 'rights' require for execution, I believe I can safely say I know a great deal more of certain subjects than a teenager. And this is one of those subjects. __________________ "Nature tells every secret once." Ralph Waldo Emerson

03-01-2002, 08:04 PM	#33
Tarox Manshoon Join Date: November 2, 2001 Location: Nottingham, UK Posts: 171	We only have 60-80years of life in us all...you have to do all the fun things in life as soon as you can, because before you know it, your life is over and you are married with kids and life is boring and the fun exiting things are no more. As long as no one catches anything, gets pregnant, becomes addicted et.c et.c I think it's ok, knock yourself out [img]smile.gif[/img] The more you try and control and dictate a teenagers life, the more they are likely to rebel and do what "they" want and opposite of you. Understanding and being open is the key I think (or hope) I still can't see what is exactly wrong with your son seeing this girl..if he reads this then, I'm sure he'll be pissed off that rather than talk to him you talked to loads of people on here...good luck __________________ <IMG SRC=\"http://tarox.homestead.com/files/TaroxE.jpg\">

03-01-2002, 08:15 PM	#34
Garnet FalconDance Mephistopheles Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: deep within the sylvan splendor.... Age: 60 Posts: 1,443	I don't know if he read it or not, but I do know he is aware I posted something. To answer your question, the situation is convoluted---and I do not plan to fully go into it here precisely because I do not wish to air all the laundry and embarass him. The girl is family also, seems to view him as some sort of trophy conquest for that simple fact, and in a previous situation involving her, he deliberately lied and totally disrespected not only us but another parent and her father with his actions. THAT, not his 'right' to live life dangerously and to the fullest at such a young age, is the issue at hand. Trust and how far a parent should go to keep their child (yes, child!) as safe as is reasonable. He is, I repeat, a good kid. It is my responsibility to guide him to ensure he has the moral compass with which to continue his life in a manner that does as little true damage as possible. I realize that making mistakes is a vital part of growing up, but I also know that if we are not taught 'right' from 'wrong', we tend to struggle a great deal more than is necessary or desireable--and that tends to degrade the remainder of that relatively short 60-80 years alloted to us. __________________ "Nature tells every secret once." Ralph Waldo Emerson

03-01-2002, 08:24 PM	#35
Downunda Set - Egyptian God of Chaos Join Date: January 7, 2002 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Age: 45 Posts: 2,975	The first thing I'm gonna say is that there is no "right" way to bring up a child, I can think of many "wrong" ways to raise a child but this will never happen to any parent that loves their child, as you obviously do. One thing you've got to realize is that you can't protect them every second of every day. What happens when they leave home without having learnt from their mistakes because mum and dad have always been there to stop them before they make any. IMO you should treat him as an equal, have a family meeting or whatever and tell him your veiws and opinions but ultimately let him make his own decision. Most importantly however, let him know that you'll always be there for him if he needs you. Always think worst case scenario; in this case I can imagine it being the girl getting pregnant - not something I'd wish on any teenager. Bring this up with him. Make a family environment in which he doesn't feel he needs to go behind your back. I left home when I was 16 (because I knew best and mum was just being a bitch! at least that's what I thought at the time). Three and a half months later I humbly crawled home, with a new found respect for what my parents were doing. I'd learnt more in three months on my own than in three years living at home. I'm not saying that this is what your son should do but just that he might be better learning some things himself. Please don't take this as gospel as I am only basing it on my personal experiences, just wanted to post my opinion [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ \"Doing stuff is overrated, like Hitler, he did lots of stuff, but doesn\'t everybody wish he\'d just stayed at home and smoked pot?!?\"

03-02-2002, 11:10 AM	#36
Moni Guest Posts: n/a	I haven't read through all the responses in this thread, but having already raised a son (he is 21 today [img]smile.gif[/img] ) I can tell you that you MUST do these three things... #1) Teach him about the dangers of sexually transmitted diseases!! #2) Make sure he has access to condoms, knows how to use them, and knows they can break!!! #3) Let the boy live his life as he grows up...he will need to feel that he can be responsible for himself as he enters into adulthood and constant interferring can make him feel inadequate or build a wall between him and you that may never be brought down. Best of Luck [img]smile.gif[/img] P.S. I gave my son two rules in life: 1) have fun and 2) be careful. I educated him at an early age about the dangers of doing drugs, smoking (pot and cigarettes), drinking alcohol, and having unprotected sex...he tried things, as all teenagers are likely to but before he turned 16 it was decided (by him) that drugs, smoking and alcohol were not going to be factors in his life. He has a great girlfriend that he's been seeing for the last two years and it is doubtful I'll ever see any grandchildren from them since they both put responsibility for themselves in front of everything and don't see a baby in the mix for a few more years if ever. [img]smile.gif[/img] [ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: Moni ]

03-02-2002, 11:33 AM	#37
Moni Guest Posts: n/a	You might also want to relate this story of a teenage friend of mine: I had this freind for many years as a kid and into the teenage years. She was facinated with the idea of having sex and experimented with men of all ages once she became old enough (13). When her target (at the age of 16) became a 13 year old boy from the town's baseball team we all told her to stay away from him, he was just a kid, it was wrong, etc. etc. She didn't listen and not only seduced him but got pregnant by him thinking he would become a major league ball player and she would have it made, having saddled him with the responsibility of a baby and herself. He was only 13!!! She ended up breaking it off with him when he turned 16 and began seeing the world through eyes other than her own, making decisions for himself and (of course) considering the possibility of a future with a woman closer to his own age. She made him take their little girl so that she could go on with her life. (they had both been attending school and working part time to support the child while living in their respective homes while they finished growing up and at 19 she moved away from everyone and everything) He and his mother raised the little girl but not without heartaches and trouble since his mom was disabled and he was uneducated, having to drop out of school and work full time to support the three of them. The main word here....BEWARE! The consequeses of actions during your teen years can have far reaching effects, not just for you, but for those you care for as well.

03-02-2002, 11:50 AM	#38
Talthyr Malkaviel Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: August 31, 2001 Location: Land of the Britons Age: 37 Posts: 3,224	A lot of people are saying that teenagers don't know the dangers, and trust me, they do know the dangers, they know exactly what they are doing to themselves, if that stuff is happening to them, it's usually more correct to say they don't care. Trust me, when I was getting taught this stuff at school (Sexual education, drugs etc.) no-one in my class listened.. ever, because we already knew, and were aware of what it could lead to, they still did it though. I think that teenagers all go through this stage for a reason, like the saying 'you learn from your mistakes' and that is why adults act the way they do, because they have been through it, hopefully got through it and moved on, and they don't want to see their child go down the same path no matter how necessary/inevitable it is, even if it's a not so big thing. If a child is too overprotected they won't have a clue about the real world, and will be more vulnerable to subscept to such things, but not knowing the dangers would be more prone to get in a real bad way about it. Just my long rambling two pence. __________________ Resident cantankerous sorcerer of the Clan HADB<br />and Sorcerous Nuttella salesman of the O.R.T<br /> <br /><br />Say NO to the Trouser Tyranny! Can I drill you about this?

03-02-2002, 12:01 PM	#39
Moni Guest Posts: n/a	quote: Originally posted by Talthyr Malkaviel: A lot of people are saying that teenagers don't know the dangers, and trust me, they do know the dangers, they know exactly what they are doing to themselves, if that stuff is happening to them, it's usually more correct to say they don't care. Trust me, when I was getting taught this stuff at school (Sexual education, drugs etc.) no-one in my class listened.. ever, because we already knew, and were aware of what it could lead to, they still did it though. I think that teenagers all go through this stage for a reason, like the saying 'you learn from your mistakes' and that is why adults act the way they do, because they have been through it, hopefully got through it and moved on, and they don't want to see their child go down the same path no matter how necessary/inevitable it is, even if it's a not so big thing. If a child is too overprotected they won't have a clue about the real world, and will be more vulnerable to subscept to such things, but not knowing the dangers would be more prone to get in a real bad way about it. Just my long rambling two pence. I think when the lessons come from the parents kids do listen more than when they come from the schools. Sitting your kids down and discussing these things with them comes with a benefit the schools can't offer...it lets the kids know that their parents care and that goes a long way toward opening doors of communication between teens and their parents as we all grow older (together or not...my son and I have lived hundreds of miles apart since he was 18 and we still communicate like best friends). Your last paragraph speaks volumes. [img]smile.gif[/img] I learned life's hard lessons about using drugs and drinking alcohol the hardest way possible simply because my parents never talked to me about them. [ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: Moni ]

03-02-2002, 12:10 PM	#40
Talthyr Malkaviel Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: August 31, 2001 Location: Land of the Britons Age: 37 Posts: 3,224	That's what I mean, schools won't teach you anything new, parents have a better chance because although children will think 'they don't understand' they probably do, and are just looking out for their child, it's just that the child will shrug this off becuase they know the dangers, but naturally parents will worry that something may lead on to something worse, luckily the child usually knows boundaries (I sure do) and won't overstep them, whatever the peer pressure, it just depends what the child is like and most aren't going to get themselves killed doing something stupid. I think the important thing is for the parent to understand that even if you think they are 'only teenagers' they now you are looking out for them, and you have to trust them to set their own limits, if they set their minds on doing the really bad things, they probably will, and being stricter won't help, be open with them, let them discover for themselves and they will come to see for themselves what they will and won't do in the future. Two more rambling shiny pennies. __________________ Resident cantankerous sorcerer of the Clan HADB<br />and Sorcerous Nuttella salesman of the O.R.T<br /> <br /><br />Say NO to the Trouser Tyranny! Can I drill you about this?

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