11-18-2002, 10:44 PM | #41 |
Zartan
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The whole notion of being "openly gay" makes me think of what it would be like to be "openly black" or "openly female". What if it were "openly christian/muslim/jewish"?
It all boils down to the irational fear of homosexuality. The thinking may be summed up like this: I "If I don't know a person is gay, that is ok. But once I find out, be it through whim, wit, or folly, It is not ok. That person, who is gay, makes ME feel so uncomfortable with myself that instead of analyzing my fear of what is totally unknown or even taboo to me, I seek to stop them from living out an honorable life serving their Nation." If the homosexual person is leering at you in the shower, and you don't know they are gay, what difference does it make if they are leering at you and you do know they are gay? They are still leering at you. I am Bona-Fide hetro-sexual. Some of my good friends in life are gay men, I know a few in the military. They live under veil of constant fear that they will lose their job, their lively hood and their right to serve and defend the nation they love.
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11-18-2002, 10:52 PM | #42 | |
Zartan
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11-19-2002, 01:43 AM | #43 | |
Zartan
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11-19-2002, 03:32 AM | #44 | |
Ironworks Moderator
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Having said that, I notice an insinuation that Donut hasn't been punished for some perceived transgression. Donut will not be banned for a mild flame like this - otherwise we'd be banning a hell of a lot of people daily. This should not be a big deal in the overall scheme of things, and Ironworks is not a concentration camp. One of the main things that keeps this forum running is self-regulation and trust between members and moderators. We trust you guys to sort yourselves out with these minor issues and make sure they don't become major ones. People don't have to like each other - but they need to be able to coexist in relative harmony. If this behaviour continues and turns into a major issue (from ANYONE, not just Donut) then we will start to think about penalties. The rest of you may not agree with those, but you're entitled to disagree - what we do ask is that you accept whatever that decision is and not make insinuations about injustice, etc. If you would like clarification about a decision/lack of decision then email myself or one of the other moderators on this forum and ask us - politely. We will reply to you - politely - and in the event that you don't like the reply, then have the grace to accept it. I hope that this helps you all put things in perspective. If this minor issue becomes a major one I will lock the thread, penalize whoever needs to be penalized, and that will be that. [ 11-19-2002, 08:44 AM: Message edited by: Memnoch ] |
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11-19-2002, 05:59 AM | #45 | |
Symbol of Cyric
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[ 11-19-2002, 06:00 AM: Message edited by: Lanesra ] |
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11-19-2002, 06:24 AM | #46 | |
Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom
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[ 11-19-2002, 06:30 AM: Message edited by: The Hierophant ]
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11-19-2002, 07:54 AM | #47 | |
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Maybe the Thebans did it to an extent but the Spartans made it part of the daily life in their barracks. Almost part of their training you could say and yet not only did it not hamstring them in battle but the Spartans were by miles the strongest and most disciplined in Greece if not in history. Puts the early roman legionarres to shame. |
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11-19-2002, 10:24 AM | #48 | |
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Second, though, what is it about being "gay" that makes it protectible, like the skin color, gender, and religion you list. What is it the later list has in common that makes "gay" not fit the list. Inalienable characteristics? Historical discrimination? What is it about physically desiring the same sex that places on the pedestal reserved for race, gender, and religion? I'm not being argumentative here, I just want to point out that if you're going to protect a class of people you need to justify why. The Supreme Court has a test for what constitutes a "protected class" but I don't have it right now, and some on-line (non-Westlaw) searches have not turned up a good concise statement of it - though I did happen to encounter a gay porn site that won't close no matter what. I'll look for this test and perhaps post more on it later, but the rest of my morning is busy. Third, do transexuals get the same protection? What about transvestites? What about pedophiles? Sado-masochists? Is it a lifestyle that's protected or the act of sodomy? Note that sodomy - no matter the gender performing or receiving - is still illegal in nearly half the states. And, the Supreme Court upheld this regarding Georgia in Bowers v. Hardwick (yes, that's really the name of the case ). Anyway, just some thoughts. If you're going to protect it, define why, define what you're protecting, and draw the limits so as not to open any floodgates as to other things you're not anticipating. [ 11-19-2002, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ] |
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11-19-2002, 10:45 AM | #49 | |
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11-19-2002, 11:10 AM | #50 | |
Ironworks Moderator
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