School shootings

[Moridin]

I would like to start by saying that I am 100% for a Ban on Guns! There are instances (hunting/sport shooting....) where guns should be allowed, but why anybody needs a gun in their bedside table in beyond me.

As for the issue of school shootings....and not just that, but teenage violence in general (and I am only speaking for the US as I do not know the rest of the world situations enough to give an educated opinion)
1) I find it a shame that we only hear about the "white, suburbanite" kids that shoot their "white, suburbanite" classmates at school. I blame this on the media. We hear little snip-its here and there about other violence but nothing to the degree of 'columbine' or now 'san diego'.....we need to start reacting to all teenage violence not just the "rich white kids"
2) The problem is beyond what is portrayed. After these shootings we always hear about "where was the parent?", "what went wrong?"......well here are a few statistics that may startle you and show a little of what the actual problem might be
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These are 2000 stats for the US
#18 years and younger = 63,604,432
#with one parent = 13,809,652
%with one parent = 22%
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# of adults (25+) with less than 9th grade education = 16,502,211
# of adults (25+) with a graduate degree = 11,477,686

I am not saying that you need a graduate degree to be successful or raise children, but it is shocking that there are more high school drop-outs in america than MD's, PhD's, or JD's........how can we expect our kids to do any better when many of their parents only went through 8th grade
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Median household income (poverty line) = $17,654
#households with only female parent = 10,381,654
#households (female parent) w/ children under 18 = 6,783,155
# living below poverty = 2,866,941
% living below poverty = 42%

These kids are 55% more likely to commit any crime and 72% more likely to commit a violent crime
Is this a parenting issue??? I don't know......this is an issue that society as a whole has to step up and deal with....we cannot lay ALL of the blame on the parents!

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[Draconia]

I agree with Gray Mage and Zenith about the parent issues. As a parent of 3 kids, I do not want my kids going to school with a gun because of someone picking on them. I do not let my kids watch any violent movies or play any violent video games. They do not watch me play my games that I play on the computer. I do not allow it. I have also showed them other ways of releasing their anger besides in a violent way. Now that my son is the school and I see the shootings that happen in other schools, it worries me. We own guns but my kids are being taught the safe ways of handling them and what can happen if they are not handled properly. We do not leave our guns out for our children to get and they are not loaded. When other people come to our house, our guns are locked up. We make sure of that so other kids that do not know about guns, cannot get to them. We take every safety route that we can when it comes to our guns. I wish that parents would take more time to show our children what guns are capable of. We cannot blame the gun, it did not load itself and shoot someone. I know that we can't blame everything on the parents but we as parents need to be more active in our children's lives. I hope that I didn't offend anyone. I guess I am lucky to be able to stay home with my kids and I hope that I am teaching them the right things.

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Draconia, Dragon Queen

[Lord of Alcohol]

Rikard-regarding the landmines the US does not export them to any country and the only place we have them deployed is in South Korea on the northern border. Our refusal to sign the treaty is based on the safety of both our and South Korean forces and people. Relations there seem to be thawing a bit and maybe soon there will be no need for them

Just realised my earlier post didn't come out quite how I meant - it sounds as though I am defending the kids who shoot their classmates, this I am not in favour of. However I do know what's it like to be bullied to distraction. Very often when I tried to retalliate with violence - fist fights, I would be the one who either got beaten up when it was older kids, or got hauled before the teacher for fighting against smaller kids who supposedly "couldn't defend themselves".

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[Draconia]

I hope that I don't piss anyone off but I don't think that banning guns will solve the problem. I think it might cause more of a problem then solve it. The US has enough trouble keeping the crime rate down, can you imagine what would happen if guns are banned? It would be major caos. Alot of people would be mad and things could get out of control. We need to do things to make guns not so easily available to our children. It has to start at home with our own guns (those parents that own guns). We need to go after the guys on the streets who will sell any gun to anyone who has the money. This is a very touchy issue so I am going to stop here. I just don't want to make everyone mad at me and no longer talk to me because of my feelings towards guns.

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Draconia, Dragon Queen

[Lord of Alcohol]

This whole thing of people/kids going around shooting people is just baffling to me. I can see getting pissed off. Happens all the time. You yell ,scream, and maybe sort things out. Maybe get in a fight. Maybe just be sneaky and get even. But going on a killing spree? I just dont get it.

[Lord of Alcohol]

Hi Draconia, I agree banning guns would be difficult. As you say people should be A LOT more careful with these weapons. I dont have any kids but if I did you can bet my rifle would be inaccessible AND have a trigger lock on it. Unfortunately if someone wants something badly they can probably get it. Here or in any country in the world.

[Moridin]

Draconia,

I do not want to start an argument....I do not know your family situation well enough to warrant that....however I have to state this:
If you look at the past 4 school shooting you will see one common factor.....all the 'shooters' had knowledge of guns taught to them by their parents and/or grandparents. It is not only the knowledge of how to operate a gun, but knowing that gun(s) are available at home that makes these kids dangerous. The kid in Portland (kip kingle?) the kids in Arkansas, and the kid in San Diego all got their guns at home and all were taught 'gun safety' by their parents....the kids at Columbine bought their guns, but were taught 'gun safety' by their parents. Just b/c you lock up your guns doesn't make them inaccessable.....if a kid has gotten to the point of wanting to shoot another kid they will not be detered by a locked gun cabinet! We have to make guns totally 100% inaccessable to children. There is no other answer. As long as kids have access to guns we will continue to see violent episodes like "portland, arkansas, columbine, and san diego"!


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[Gray Mage]

Moridin, I think that if we enforce the laws we have, there won't be a need to ban guns. Not that that will work because ther will always be a way to get them.

I think what Drconia was saying is that not only gun safety, but Morality and discipline are being taught. There is a time and a place for guns...hunting, target practice, etc. Not when somebody pisses you off

In the instances you mentioned they were taught gun safety, but the parents had no Idea what there kids were into. They said that, they dressed in black and when they look back saw signs, but didn't take the time to see what the hell was going on.

These kids had a pad-lock on there closet. When i was growing-up my parents motto was my house my rules. If I didn't like it I could move out. Now if these parents didn't know why there was a lock, or that there was a lock there is something wrong. They need to be involved in their kids life.

Anyway this is an issue that I feel strongly about...no offense

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Feel My Power

[This message has been edited by Gray Mage (edited 03-06-2001).]

[Yorick]

Draconia, we may disagree, even heartily so, but your kids will still have uncle Yorick

We had a lunatic in Tasmainia decide to go a spree in Port Arthur. The only positive to come out of such maddess and terrible destruction was that the Govt. FINALLY introduced tough gun laws.

Yes it caused problems, yes a "Shooters Party" was formed and gets the 'redneck' vote from angry farmers etc. But for crying out loud, the truth remains that a child with a knife in a rage can be tackled by an adult. A child with a gun will kill an adult, many adults.

Why do you need a gun for security? Because everyone has one! I have never owned a gun, never even held one. I believe that in Britain (correct me if I´m wrong Brits) not even the Bobbies carry guns. Banning them totally brings everyone down to the same level.

The US has a unique position in the world regarding guns. I believe it has the highest percentage of gun ownership anywhere (correct me if I´m wrong).

Gun + Liquor + Gang = Deaths
Gun + Tempory insanity = Death(s)

The gun gives a person so much more power of destruction than their own power. It is an instrument designed to take life. DESIGNED TO DESTROY LIFE.

Passionately I believe in this and passionately I will argue it.
Never would I not talk to one who disagrees however

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FAIR DINKUM!