the Library Bar...Club...Establishment...Saloon...

[Djinn Raffo]

It's awesome isnt it!!!
Wingrove definetly has the style to keep you turning pages.

[Djinn Raffo]

Ok where is everyone!!!!111

LoA !!!Do you ever build circular stairs????????
Jabidas!!!!! Whats going on...tell us about yer vacation! Did you already? I missed the thread.
Melusine!1 How was Greece???? I missed that thread too.
Mouse! Whats up, whats shakin?
Tancred!!!!!!!!>????????? How about it!?
Lioness!!! What about the cubs!! How about Ichiro!!!! Dint Bonds just hit 60!!
trux!!!!11
imperial dwarf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Memnoch!!!!!!1
Flojtsdale!!!!!!
ANYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lets hear about it!!!!

Ok well for me lately ive been totally addicted to a really violent video game called Rogue Spear!!! I've been playing online at the zone and am a total write off! its a shooter.

I've finally gotten around to starting the fourth Hyperion book. it is by far the best of the series and i am loving it. The other three i liked and enjoyed...but did not love per say! But this one: Rise of Endymion is amazing!
I find myself yelling at the characters in the book: "dont do it!! Look out!!" etc. Thats when i enjoy books the most.

NHL season starts soon, another month, that will take up alot of my time as i must put all my psychic energy into praying for my team, Vancouver Canucks, to decimate all in there path to the Stanley Cup! Long shot though.

ok sry!

[Lord of Alcohol]

Hey Djinn! Good to see this bumped up a bit, I was going to do it myself. I've done one set of circular stairs, and installed the prefabricated ones several times. They arent that common, due to being expensive in every way. Are you wanting to build a set? Hmmm, or are you refering to those metal prefab stairs? Anyway any advice you need ask away. Oh yea, I'm on "The White Mountain" now. Just started it but it continues to be an EXCELLENT series. I read a different book in between Chung Kuo books to keep me wanting lol. The fourth book sits on my shelf screaming hurry!

[imperial dwarf]

Whoa, now that’s a feat you should try to top . 8 hours working in civilian service, meanwhile programming a rpg in TP 6.0 AND finishing three books! I tell ye, life was so much easier without a daily duty to perform, sigh .
However, to the books. I’m pretty sure that two of them are unknown to most of you: The Jesus Incident by Frank Herbert and Bill Ransom and The Meditations by Rene Descartes. The third book was a bit for relaxation, Winter’s Heart by good old Jordan.
The Jesus Incident is an really excellent piece of sf literature, reminding of Dune but being totally separate from it (and therefore perhaps mostly unknown). Personally I fell in love with it right after the first pages where I already glanced the first pieces of the storyline. The story in short: A sentient ship with a load of colonists orbits a planet, Pandora, where attempts at colonization are made. The Ship itself belives to be god and is worShipped by the colonists. The planet houses a load of hostile beings, among them a giant organic structure that covers most of the surface of the planet. Furthermore Ship threatens to extinct the humans if they find no right way to worShip. The story now tells about the colonist’s struggle to survive and the interrelation between them, the Sip and the planet and culminates in an unexpected surprise.
Once again Herbert goes deep in the story, touching philosphical, ethical and religious topics, but the story remains at a fast pace (unlike certain parts of Chapterhouse) and stays realistic all the way through. And of course there are these brilliant short pieces introducing the chapters. Here’s my favorite: “Human, do you know how interesting it is, this thing you describe? Avata does not have a god. How is it that you have a god? Avata has Self, has this universe. But you have a god. Where did you find this god?”
It’s a specualtive story mainly concerning one question: How do humans behave towards sentient beings?
A slight drawback was that you are plunged into the story and at least I felt as if I missed a prequel (which could well be, for I read somewhere that Destination Void is a prelude, any confirmations?)
However overall I recommend it highly to anyone familiar with Herbert’s other works and everyone else. Anyone knows where to get the sequel, The Lazarus Effect? I’m curious how it continues.
By the way, anyone knows Bill Ransom or his other works?
Winter’s heart now I’m sure most of you know, but still I think it’s worth a critic. I really think that Jordan somehow got himself a bit more under control after the rather tiresome eigth book. Finally Rand returned to his primary goal (battling the dark one) although a bit indirectly and only on the last pages. To the rest of the story there isn’t much to say about, only that Jordan spins his story further, getting Mat out of trouble (more or less) and Perrin into (more or less). The womanfolk mostly just keep on seizing good pages and the reader’s money and nerves. A bit annoying was that the most interesting and much expected continuation of the Aes Sedai war was left out and is probably forming the core for book ten. But all in all it’s a nice storyline and even grips you for certain parts.
But somehow the drawbacks are getting ever more visible. Why are there dozen! of women around, serving NO function at all besides filling pages. Don’t misunderstand me, I’m the first to vote for thick atmosphere in a fantasy book but that’s ridiculous. Two thirds of the women are mentioned only in the way of “and “random woman’s name” did something too”. Therefore you have constantly loads of women behaving like small children, because otherwise, I suspect, there’s no way of giving them something to do. Another problem deriving from that is that most women have no individual personality. How many dominative wise elder or pouting pretties have you enountered? By the way, how many handsome, pretty and beautiful women are there walking around? Maybe I’m living at the wrong end of the world but I would count myself lucky if I ever meet a tenth of the numbers which are constantly roaming the pages. However even worse are those small side stories which have no influence whatsoever on the main story (can you still remember it? ). Kinswomen vs. Seafolk vs. Aes Sedai vs Aiel was at the beginning interesting and even promising, regarding insights into different cultures, but with their repititive behaviour it just gets tiresome. Another negative point are the in depth descriptions of really senseless details (how many pitchers of mulled wine did you count? I stopped with twenty). And while I appreciate a huge scope there are far to much REALLY petty details. I don’t think the series would lose anything from a bit less details and descriptions, especially similar details already mentioned. It’s just boring to get described every dress of Mat if they are more or less all the same, anyway.
However, overall and despite the cons which can get on your nerves sometimes, it’s a nice book although I would only recommend it to those who read WOT and are interested in how it continues. Not WOT enthusiastics can skip it without feeling guilt of having skipped it.
Descartes’ Meditations now are maybe not a usual lecture but well worth a look. As far as I know it’s one of the main influences towards scepticism and I think even it’s foundation work. It’s subdivided into six chapters, called meditations. Descartes describes why there are doubts concerning ANY knowledge humans might possess and why they are finally unable to retrieve real knowledge. That’s more or less the contents of the first three meditations, and they are really good. Logical and creative reasoning leads towards the undeniable conclusion that we can’t be sure about anything happening around us. The only sure thing is that we exist. Unfortunately he then uses the other meditations to prove why this isn’t the case and everything’s just as we see it. The prove is based on a prove of god’s existence (that was not a prove at all) and the assumption that god must be good (once again no prove at all). It was still interesting to read but imo a bit disappointing.
However, don’t take me to seriously, it’s disappointing concerning the topic of the first meditations. In themselves they have really interesting aspects, too.
I recommend it to anyone interested in the REAL book to The Matrix and to those who like to look a bit beyond “reality”. It’s a fairly short read (40 pages) and nearly everywhere available, either as a single book or in any given compliation of Descartes’ works.

But remember, everything’s imo .

Okay, that’s it for now as I’m nearly nodding off.

PS: Look over any spelling or grammar mistakes or any illogical sentences, I just need to sleep once again more then 6 hours.


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reality is for those not smart enough to see the truth!!!!!

[jabidas]

good reviews Imperial dwarf, keep it going. Ill do one soon to keep the ball rolling.

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[Djinn Raffo]

Awesome review imperial dwarf!
Thanks for the time you put into it!

I have read all the Dune books so im familiar with Herbert. I take it you didnt like Chapterhouse? I thought that one was one of the better of the bunch.

One of the reasons i like Herberts writing so much is that he tries to convey messages that i want to pick up on. Or at least i percieve that i can read between the lines of his books.

So many writers pages are just that. Stories that may or may not be good...but they just contain story and no metaphor. I dont like to label genres or stereotype because i think thats just wrong...but i love the way the Dune books tackle such amazing issues and packages them in a fantastic sci fi story. Herbert throws out such crazy concepts and keeps me turning pages...thats quite a feat. I think i will have to check out Jesus Incident sometime too.

I've read the Wheel of Time books...At least up to the eighth. Havent read the newest one. Sometimes they are quite good. Other times they just drone on and on and like you say have moments that seem to serve no real purpose at all. It's like Jordan just wants to have the biggest fantasy series on the shelf and
throws in pages of useless filler just to have books that look big. But like i said there have been times with these books when i just cant stop reading.

I have never really read any DesCartes but i am familiar with his work and some of his concepts. I kind of maybe think that its true that humans may never be able to achieve true knowledge...or actually that we can...but when humans do achieve some kind of view of the pattern, we will then cease to be human. We will have evolved into some kind of NewThing. Entity or Elder Race...whatever.
But then there would be new questions as well and so true knowledge evades and so on...

[Liliara]

Hmmm... I don't think I belong in here. My extent of D&D type books ends when I was about 10 and I read my last DragonLance book.

Unfortunately, until I get back into them, I only have info on Watership Down type fantasy.

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Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

[Djinn Raffo]

HEY dnd books??????\
Lilliara we dont care about dnd books.

Well some of us do but thats beside the point! (sorry Jabidas! )

Tell us about other books or just whatever. I dont read the DnD ones either.
But we need the traffic over here so tell us something!

[This message has been edited by Djinn Raffo (edited 09-11-2001).]

[Liliara]

O.K.! I have an extremely cool book that some of you may be interested in.

It's kind of a Watership Down type (by the way, I have the movie, too), It's called 'Tailchaser's Song'

I read it a long time ago, but it always comes to mind. (Own language, cooltwists towards the end). Definately a cool book!

I should metion that it's characters are cats, but very cool ones with a world completely their own and with an ancient world with myths to boot!

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Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

[This message has been edited by Liliara (edited 09-11-2001).]

[Liliara]

By the way, has anyone here read Watership Down or the sequel type book, 'Tales from Watership Down"?

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Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member