Local News:children in standoff with police

[caleb]

Most of the cops I know are nice guys its just those asses that look like a hawk for traffic violators cause they get commisions for every ticket.

[Neb]

"A license to have children" y'know Kiwi, that is an EXCELLENT idea, so is the license to have a dog thing, I think we would have far less child abuse cases if we made it a requirement that you had a license to do so before you could have any children.

[MILAMBER]

Originally posted by Visceris: I have never had any good experience with police. All the police people were wannabes that just want a reason to plug someone and are total donut-eating dicks. Sure there may be good cops, but most just want to have some reason to interfere with you life and make it hell. This is just another example of government trying to dictate what we can and cannot do, limiting our freedom. If these kids choose not to go to a foster home then it is their business, not the police or the governemnt. They should abide by their wishes. A person rights and freedoms ends at the point it will infringe on another's rights and freedom. That is the only law we need and the only time we need police when that is violated. In this case its the police who is violating that law. I hate the U.S. I hate police. I hate it here.

Did you think about this at all before you typed it out? Several of the kids were under 18. If they don't have parents then they are the responsibility of the government. As far as it not being the governments business, I am sure that there are a lot of foster kids out there who would be thankful for government intervention because they might not be here otherwise.

My neighbor just adopted a kid. It is a beautiful little girl. They went to Russia to get her. They had to live there with the kid for like 3 months because of a government policy to make sure they really want to keep the child. They were there for a while, so they got an idea of the living conditions over there. This child had no enamel on her teeth because she didn't get enough nutrients. When orphans over there turn 18, the government kicks them out and an extremely high percentage of them die because of the cold and they have nowhere to stay. They were amazed at the poverty there. Their daughter came to our house a couple of months ago, and really put things into perspective for me. She had never seen cordless phones, cell phones, door knobs, tv's etc... Everything she saw was new and a new experience.

I know I'm going to slaughter this, but there is a quote that says something to the effect of "Lawful citizens don't need laws, and unlawful citizens find away around them." Saying that everyones rights end when they start effecting other people is a load of shit. Look at Bahamut's Island theory - men aren't islands. They are in constant interaction with their surroundings. Say someone decided to break your "ethics" and press their will on their neighbors (as the stronger tend to do). By your own code of conduct nothing can be done to stop this infringer. Just because you don't think you should be able to press you will on others doesen't mean he does too. The government needs to be there to be able to stop things like that, and in order to stop things like that they have to have a certain amount of power. It could be argued that in some things they have to much power, but a form of government with the restrictions you indicate is lunacy.

We have more freedom then almost any other country in the world, so check your communist manifesto and appreciate it.


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"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
-General George Patton (1885-1945)

[caleb]

I think its more a anarchist attitude then a communist one. I know we got lots of em in washington WTO riots anyone? LOL most of em came from my sisters college.

[Charean]

I read this morning that this situation was resolved... the kids gave themselves up voluntarily. Here is the story:

Children end standoff in Idaho

June 2, 2001 Posted: 11:23 p.m. EDT (0323 GMT)

GARFIELD BAY, Idaho (CNN) -- Five children ended their five-day standoff with authorities Saturday and voluntarily left their rundown house in rural Idaho where they had been holed up with weapons and half-wild dogs.

Describing sheriff's deputies as tired but happy, one sheriff's department official said authorities got the ending they wanted.

"It was exactly the one we were hoping for: safely, quietly with no undue pressure on the children," said Bonner County Sheriff's Department Sgt. Robert Rahn.

The children are being treated at Bonner General Hospital in Sandpoint, Idaho, according to Director of Nursing Susan Montgomery.

Rahn said the children will be turned over to the state's Children's Services Department, which would then be in charge of their care.

Authorities earlier identified the children as Kathryn, 16, Mary, 13, James, 11, Frederick, 9, and Jane, 8.

He also said the family's property was still secured for investigative and safety reasons. Rahn said several agencies had offered to help with the more than two dozen dogs.

The sheriff's department said family members, close friends of the family and some sheriff deputies had spent the day in talks with the children.

The standoff began Tuesday when the children released as many as 27 dogs on sheriff's deputies
when they tried to take them into protective custody after their mother was arrested for child neglect. Their father died two weeks ago. Neighbors said the children were afraid their family would be split up if they gave themselves up to police.

Benjamin McGuckin, 15, brother of the five children who had left the home and was taken into protective custody Thursday.

Until Friday, the remaining children had not talked to anyone. On that day, people the
children know visited the house, but the children stayed in a back room and would not talk to
them face-to-face.

"They got within the threshold of the house and were able to communicate with the children orally," said Bryce Powell, the attorney for JoAnn McGuckin, 45, the mother of the children.

"They brought in food and water and were able to deliver a message from my client to the children which stated, 'I love you. I hope you are okay and please cooperate with this man, Mr. Powell.'"

Sheriff: Mother 'not cooperative'

The children's mother, who remains in jail on $100,000 bond on a charge of felonious injury to children, was "not cooperative" and would not be taken to the home to talk to the children, Rahn said.

A bail reduction hearing for the mother was postponed Friday after a storm knocked out power to the court.

Mrs. McGuckin's husband and the father of the children, Michael McGuckin, died about two weeks ago after being bed-ridden for several years with multiple sclerosis, Rahn said.

Powell said the mother and children have gone through an excruciating ordeal since then. He said the family is "extremely poor," and that the mother had trouble getting Social Security payments in recent weeks. On top of that, he said, their water well broke and they couldn't afford to fix it.

"They had no money and were doing what they could to survive," he said.

It was not clear when Benjamin left the house. He approached a neighbor's house Thursday and they then contacted authorities.

Local attorney Edgar Steele said he had been asked by Mrs. McGuckin to represent the family. He said Benjamin had "been walking around in the woods for two days before approaching the neighbor.

Steele announced Saturday he was voluntarily withdrawing from the case because he had been cut off from all access to Mrs. McGuckin by the Bonner county sheriff.

The lawyer called that action "outrageous" and said he "had not abandoned the McGuckins" and would provide free legal services to the family if any member personally asked him for help.

Steele said he had been representing Mrs. McGuckin on civil issues, pending the criminal charge against her. He claimed the county seized her property for $8,000 in back taxes and then sold it for approximately $50,000.

He also said the standoff has attracted the attention of anti-government groups, and Internet reports say members of such groups are moving into northern Idaho in response to the standoff.

"Now some of these people, I've seen some of the Internet reports, seem to think somehow that this is another Ruby Ridge in the making," Steele said.

Ruby Ridge was the 1992 shootout in Idaho in which the wife and son of white separatist Randy Weaver were killed during a standoff with federal agents.

Powell said intervention by militia groups would not help.



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Defender for the Light -
Goodness knows there is a lot of Dark out there!! - Where are my matches?!?
Wandering Soul - Finding my life's calling is Bodhisattva
Looking for lost brain - I left it only for a moment....and there it goes... rolling under the table!!
Noticing that the Light has gotten further down a Dark Tunnel than expected... Time to get the Lantern... Knowing sooner or later - I will get to the End of this Tunnel to the Open Air once again...

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by MILAMBER: Did you think about this at all before you typed it out? Several of the kids were under 18. If they don't have parents then they are the responsibility of the government. As far as it not being the governments business, I am sure that there are a lot of foster kids out there who would be thankful for government intervention because they might not be here otherwise. My neighbor just adopted a kid. It is a beautiful little girl. They went to Russia to get her. They had to live there with the kid for like 3 months because of a government policy to make sure they really want to keep the child. They were there for a while, so they got an idea of the living conditions over there. This child had no enamel on her teeth because she didn't get enough nutrients. When orphans over there turn 18, the government kicks them out and an extremely high percentage of them die because of the cold and they have nowhere to stay. They were amazed at the poverty there. Their daughter came to our house a couple of months ago, and really put things into perspective for me. She had never seen cordless phones, cell phones, door knobs, tv's etc... Everything she saw was new and a new experience. I know I'm going to slaughter this, but there is a quote that says something to the effect of "Lawful citizens don't need laws, and unlawful citizens find away around them." Saying that everyones rights end when they start effecting other people is a load of shit. Look at Bahamut's Island theory - men aren't islands. They are in constant interaction with their surroundings. Say someone decided to break your "ethics" and press their will on their neighbors (as the stronger tend to do). By your own code of conduct nothing can be done to stop this infringer. Just because you don't think you should be able to press you will on others doesen't mean he does too. The government needs to be there to be able to stop things like that, and in order to stop things like that they have to have a certain amount of power. It could be argued that in some things they have to much power, but a form of government with the restrictions you indicate is lunacy. We have more freedom then almost any other country in the world, so check your communist manifesto and appreciate it.

Milamber

I have much experience with things Russian and Soviet...sigh..and one reason your friends were made to stay so long? Not just for the welfare of the sweet little girl they were adopting, but the MONEY, cold hard American currency that they would spend while there. The Russian economy is shaky in good times these days and they have always wanted American or British currency as long as I've been involved with them ( a little over 25yrs).

Re the Idaho children: that was a very tragic situation to start with and those children need support and help, not people out screaming political debates around them. They lost a father under deplorable condidtions and are most likely traumatized that their mother is now away from them. To my way of thinking those children are top priority, not the who had what right to do which to whom debate.

Just my two cents and for what it's worth, I HAVE had good experiences with police. Having gone through the experience of being stalked by a sick individual in my apartment complex some years ago and needing to have my phone tapped and police involved, I can tell you *I* am damn glad to have the police around!

Cloudy



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Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
Storm-Queen
StormCloud of the Black Knight
Heart Mind Soul Forever

[Donut]

Originally posted by Visceris: ........total donut-eating dicks

and where might one acquire these items then?


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Save Chip - Don't let Sarah win!
Official Titterer of the Laughing Hyenas

[Gaelic]

Originally posted by Donut: and where might one acquire these items then?

That just made me snicker uncontrollably.



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Gaelic