Bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age: One Afghani's perspective

[Sazerac]

This was an article written by a American-Afghani writer named Tamim Ansary. I had originally posted this in the "Realpolotik:" thread but, as G'kar pointed out, it probably deserves its own thread for discussion. So, at the risk of spamming it, I have started a thread with the letter in question. It raises some...disturbing ideas, if indeed what he says is true.

What do you think?



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Dear Friends,

I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What Else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done."

And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.

I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters.

But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps."

It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country.

Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food. There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban.

We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that.

New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans; they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be making ommon cause with the Taliban--by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time.

So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first.

Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West.

And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the West. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that?

Bin Laden does.

Anyone else?

Sincerely,
Tamim Ansary

[Vaskez]

Woah! That's some powerful stuff there Saz. But much of it is true. The people of Afghanistan *are* suffering and should not be made to suffer more. Pakistan is also in a difficult situation. I have a pakistani friend. His father has already phoned his brothers and cousins in Pakistan to get the hell out of the city where they live in fear of a bombing. Bush better do all he can to avoid a 3rd world war or he will soon be the 2nd most hated man in the world after Bin Laden.

[Sharpedge]

This brings home just how delicate the threshold we are standing on actually is.

The scary thing is, a lot of this makes a lot of sense, and it means that we'll have to do more then simply sit in airplanes dropping mega tonnes of explosives if we're really serious about solving this.

However,

...The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first...

How is this course of action any better then bombing innocents? Pakistan has been in receipt of American aid for many years, what possible good could come from invading them? I suppose that's the point of what he is saying.

Is he therefore suggesting that a satisfactory conclusion to this campaign against terrorism cannot come about without a war between Islam and The West? If that is the case then I sincerely hope he is wrong. I'm sure I'm not alone in my assumption that there are other ways to eliminate targets on the ground without the use of either missiles/bombs or massive amounts of troops. Saying that, my knowledge of contemporary military tactics is sketchy to say the least.

Still, is there no hope here? Are we looking at a full-scale war before this over?

I pray we are not.

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"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.

Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure."

[Ladyzekke]

I tend to agree Saz. I mean, I TRULY want the perpetrators to pay for what they have done. But they seem so scattered about. And to bomb some area that may kill innocents, in some ways, makes us no better than them, and of course then it will give them an excuse to "retaliate", which will only end in even more innocent lives lost in America and who knows where else. How the U.S. is gonna swing it with this particular situation I do not know. Talk about a hard row to hoe... This shite is made of concrete, and even tho we can hoe it, in the end the hoe will be dented or even destroyed in the process.

I agree that there MUST be people living in Afghanistan that are just like us, normal folks just trying to make a life for themselves, with no power over what others do. Same as the recent victims at the WTC and Pentagon, is that right? No. I don't want to see the U.S. do the same thing. But on the other side of the coin, I want these evil people stopped, so they cannot continue to do further damage, and pay for their crimes.

The $1,000 dollar question, is how can this be done?

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[Aelia Jusa]

This is like the Afgan refugees that Australia wouldn't let come a week or so ago. Now heaps of people are saying how lucky, there may have been terrorists amongst them. But it's not because they're Afgani (if indeed the terrorists are) that they're terrorists, it's because they're fanatical.

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Goddess and Sorceress of the HADB, and her sidekick Pink

[John D Harris]

Aid the Northern Alliance they are fighting the Talliban right now. Give them aid and what ever they need to remove the Talliban.
Pakistan will let us move troops through their territory, they need us to keep India off their backs. Pakistan and India would go to war tomorrow if they thought they could get away with it. What was it, about a year ago that India and Pakistan were at each others throats threatening to throw nukes at each other.


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"the memories of a man in his old age,
are deeds of a man in his prime"

[Jafin]

This article has some very valid points. However, from the news I'm hearing it seems that Pakistan will allow the U.S. to move through and to attack Afghanistan. In addition, it seems that no nation is willing to support Afghanistan in this... They all believe it atrocious. I also heard yesterday that this isn't going to be fought as a traditional war, that much of it will be special forces infiltrating terrorist compounds and eradicating them. In all honesty, I don't think this will last long in Afghanistan. However, Bush has promised to try to find all terrorist organizations that they possibly can, and not all the terrorist groups are in Afghanistan. One thing is for sure however, this is not going to be short, it won't be easy and it's going to be bloody...

BTW, as of today, war is official. The Taliban has declared a holy war against the United States... Thousands of Afghan troups are massed along the Pakistan/Afghanistan border... It has begun and only time will tell will the final outcome of this... To all of you who pray, pray for God's grace and mercy in protecting the innocents...

-Jafin

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Proud Citizen of the United States of America
The Original Arch-Mage of the HADB
Destroyer of the evil Bunnies
Proprietor of the Boogre Bar

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Jafin: This article has some very valid points. However, from the news I'm hearing it seems that Pakistan will allow the U.S. to move through and to attack Afghanistan. In addition, it seems that no nation is willing to support Afghanistan in this... They all believe it atrocious. I also heard yesterday that this isn't going to be fought as a traditional war, that much of it will be special forces infiltrating terrorist compounds and eradicating them. In all honesty, I don't think this will last long in Afghanistan. However, Bush has promised to try to find all terrorist organizations that they possibly can, and not all the terrorist groups are in Afghanistan. One thing is for sure however, this is not going to be short, it won't be easy and it's going to be bloody... BTW, as of today, war is official. The Taliban has declared a holy war against the United States... Thousands of Afghan troups are massed along the Pakistan/Afghanistan border... It has begun and only time will tell will the final outcome of this... To all of you who pray, pray for God's grace and mercy in protecting the innocents... -Jafin

You got that right!



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"the memories of a man in his old age,
are deeds of a man in his prime"

[Lifetime]

Originally posted by Jafin: BTW, as of today, war is official. The Taliban has declared a holy war against the United States... Thousands of Afghan troups are massed along the Pakistan/Afghanistan border... It has begun and only time will tell will the final outcome of this... To all of you who pray, pray for God's grace and mercy in protecting the innocents... -Jafin

Oh. Shit.

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Proud to be American

Originally posted by Lifetime: Oh. Shit.

My thoughts exactly... I pray that the Lord and Lady will guide us through this.