Amazon Mindtraps? Touchy Moment in the Game For Me. Help!

[Elowin]

Okay. It's true. When something attacks my party right off and kills everyone in one round outright before I hardly have time to turn around to see what it is I go immediately into a very bad THIS REALLY SUCKS mode. What is the game trying to tell me? This is the sort of clueless game imbalance that _will_ cause me to $%itcan it in a moments despair. I think I got the name right as Amazon Mindtrap or Mind Trap. In one or two hits per party member they were each dead. Run and do what? Heal up and then do what?

Maybe the game is telling me that each party member needs to take on an Elite Role. They are all level 10 now or better I believe and I have been thinking of doing this but putting it off. The party is exploring west of Ishad N'Ha for the first time. All quests east of Ishad N'Ha have been accomplished. The rogue doesn't need lockpicks anymore. Even the one chest I found west of the city was marked "Easy".

Keeping this damn Amazon thing in mind (no pun intended) and considering that developing Elite Roles now will be the best solution now what Elite Roles do you recommend? I have three fighters, one priest, one wizard, and one rogue.

I want answers. This _isn't_ fun. This isn't adventure. I don't mind extensive battles so long as the party is not decimated in ten seconds. In the last battle of the Serpent Temple we ran out of the room and drew off each servant one at a time in the narrow passage there and then faces the Evil Mask in a managed fashion of damage and healing until she was dead. That's all I am asking now too really--just a fair fight. I'm going to read up on Elite Roles now but I really hope you have some advice to offer to about the Amazon Mindtrap and Elite Roles. Thank you for helping.

[Wyvern]

The mantraps were/are a terrible game design element - fortunately they don't spawn often even when you have spawn set on frequent.
Changing to elite roles might help but first - what level are your characters??
Changing fighters to elite roles is generally fine at any level but with rogues and magic users you may want to wait until they are at least level 15 and have learned some of the more important spells. Changing their class too soon can make it difficult or impossible to learn higher level spells of a particular type. I'm hoping some of the others that frequent this board will jump in with recommendations on class changes.

Please follow the link in my signature thingie below and check out the hints section you will find there - there are tips about dealing with the mantraps!

Where did you run into them?? That also can make a difference in how we can help and advise you.

Wyv

[freudianslip]

Hi Elowin, you'll probably get a variety of different answers to this one; the amazon traps are a pain; general hints to ensure their destruction here. To summarize those points; distance, fight during the day, retreat as soon as you can get them in full visual, and burning haze.

There's a definited divided source of opinion on migrating to the elite roles. The "sweet spot" seems to be around level 14. I erred in switching my priest to a paladin before she could learn Breath of Air.

The elite roles aren't really necessary, to be honest; but, that's part of the fun, to experiment. I like the warlock, because the fiend spells are so much fun, and the moon spells very useful. (Once you get call of home, teleport, & create portal, you won't know how you got along without them.) Other than warlock? Hmm.. In all honesty, I would read through the manual and decide which appeals most to you as a role-player. Any will see you through.

[Elowin]

I haven't tried to encounter the Amazon(i) Mantrap again but I thought I would answer and/or develop a few more questions and then go out to lunch.

This is my first encounter and with this type of monster and in the three attempts they all occur approaching the Burned-out House I believe. There are also some bandits in the area and some rather large dressed-up rodents too. I understand I need to fight these Amazon Mantraps during daylight. This raises an old unanswered question though of just how one's party spends the night _quickly_? The party never sleeps and night seems to be longer then day if there is a difference. It is hard enough poking around in the dark anyway so I am all for daylight travel--though there must be times when night is needed?

I will try the distance tactic and burning haze and keep my fingers crossed. I'm not sure how the battle mode cycles through party members that do not have any missle weapons? Can a battle be fought just between the Wizard and Amazoni with the others in the party only supporting the Wizard?

"Approach until full visual is made". Ha ha ha. So far all attacks from this Amazoni have come from behind. Obviously I am being careless though and will keep trying.

Do these Amazoni's once they spot you or you engage them follow you or do they stay in one spot so you could circumnavigate them and or retreat to heal and not get pursued or jumped on from some new position?

As for the party upgrading to Elite Roles. It looks like from what you are saying it is still premature. My three warriors are level 10 and maybe they could advance. The priest is level 9; wizard level 9; and thief level 9 though and I think should go at least to level 14 or 15 if I read right.

Thank you for the help.

[freudianslip]

They engage. Once you have visual, typically, so do they, and will pursue you, slowly and methodically, until one of you perishes. They also, sometimes, have seemingly extra-sensory perception, and can track your scent across a considerable distance. Fortunately, they have 2 major handicaps you can exploit:

1) They are slow

2) They often get stuck on hills / trees

While the second isn't very sporting, you can often luck out and get them stuck on a hill/tree, then commence to a severe beatdown whilst they remain encumbered by the environmental obstacles.

Also, if the battle turns ugly, and you have to flee, keep in mind that they often WILL find you, no matter how far you run. I've had one of those bad boys waiting for me in the oracle tunnel (how it got in the water I'll never know), and another hangin' with the ghosts outside Shurgeon castle until I finally decided enough was enough and waxed them. (With heavy losses.)

When "strategically withdrawing", make sure to withdraw far. Hold down shift, and run. Only then, return to continue . If you stay out of range, your wizards can continually lob spells; just keep backing up. I usually like to make little "BEEP BEEP BEEP" noises when I walk backwards, like you hear dump trucks do, but that's just me.


In fact, when fighting this devilish plant life, I like to keep a quote from jack handey in mind in the event I need to fall back to regroup:

It makes me mad when people say I turned and ran like a scared rabbit. Maybe it was like an angry rabbit, who was running to go fight in another fight, away from the first fight.

[Elowin]

You will all be happy to know that the party survived this Amazoni Mantrap plantlife and other sorted creatures in the immediate areas west of Ishad N'Ha. Things we learned:

1. Fire Haze is a great distance offensive spell.

2. Only take on a heavy hitter of this sort one at a time and from a distance.

3. The Amazoni at least can't swim but just backing away from them works fine as they slowly advance.

4. Some things do swim or walk through the water like we do.

5. Searching through the land terrain at night sucks. Park the party somewhere that doesn't leave you boxed in for escape paths and wait for daylight. Eat dinner or watch TV or read while this night phase passes. Save your progress of doing nothing periodically so you don't waste wasting your time.

If anyone knows a better way of passing the night in W&W please let me know? I am certain that W&W intent was not to sleep but keep on moving day or night but night travel in general is dangerous and very disorienting in a heated battle.

Once an area above ground has been cleaned (and spawning is at a minimum) I now feel safe once again traveling at night though the risk will always be present we might run right into a new or somehow missed Amazoni or the like. Nasty nasty Amazoni.

[Wyvern]

Congrats Elowin!!

Glad you made it pass the Mantraps! That is such a frustrating bit for so many players - sort of like a rite of passage.

Wyv

If you have a Wiskas set them as lead character as they heve night vision. Have you got the Sun spell illuminate as this work well at night. Use the map to reorintate yourself after a battle.

Elowin: Beware the boogre den!

I found the easiest way to deal with these was to draw them back to the town, stand and fight then dart inside the town to heal up before renewing the fight. Don't stand back and exchange missile/spells, get in with the cold steel!