Virginia Tech shootout- over 20 dead reported

[Ladyzekke]

Dr. Phil's a quack. A dog and pony show. Not surprised idiot was the first one to point fingers at gaming.

Well they know who the gunman is now, a Korean English major. Also everyone currently in the hospital are now in stable condition so will be OK. Which is good news because most of them apparently had several gunshot wounds.

[True_Moose]

The sheer magnitude of the event is almost incomprehensible to me. I live in a residence of a much smaller scale, but fairly similar to the one in which the shooting started. It really is enough to give you pause and consider the fragility of life.

One thing I think deserves mention is the story of one of the professors killed in the tragedy, a professor by the name of Liviu Librescu. A Holocaust survivor, he held the doors to his classroom shut so his students could escape. It's a shame that such an amazing act of selflessness and heroism will go relatively unacknowledged by the media due to the actions of a monster.

Link: http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/Art...388753,00.html

[True_Moose]

And as to the video game debate: all I will say on the subject is that the shooter is 23. At that age, if you are unable to distinguish between a video game, or indeed a film or song, and real life, you have far worse problems than being exposed to violent media. There are no limitations, nor should there be, on what a person of that age can view; by that age the vast majority of people can and do have the ability to separate such media from real life. To try and pin this on anything other than the sheer inhumanity of the shooter is wrong, I believe.

[johnny]

So now we've reached a new level in the discussion....should all students be allowed to carry a concealed weapon or not?

I'm not against firearms, quite the contrary, but the mere thought of sending kids to school with a gun in their pocket, makes the hair at the back of neck rise up. Something's seriously f#cked up in our society today.

[Skydracgrrl]

I'm not even sure what to say, because there is so much going on in my mind right now. I was -- am -- friends with some of the people killed in the shootout. It pains me to no end that I am going to school out of state, so I can't be near my other friends to grieve and stand together.

Out of respect, I will not list who has died. If you were closely affected by this incident, hopefully you have already been informed.

VA Tech tribute on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWD9tb9c6Ao

CNN article on the shootout (seems to be the most informative that I have found):
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/17/vte...ing/index.html

Remember Virginia Tech:
http://www.remembervt.com/

Please feel free to sign the memorial page of the last website listed, and if you live in the area there will be a candlelight vigil at VA Tech today at 8pm.

As for Dr. Phil, there are many things I would like to say about the issue of video games and his show and personality, but I will not debase myself in my moment of grief.


Cho Seung-Hui's (the shooter, from South Korea, age 23, English major) plays were posted for the public, very graphic violence and language, don't read if this will bother you. I will also remove this link if requested.

(YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED -- NOT FOR UNDERAGE READING) http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/...ng-huis-plays/

[Skydracgrrl]

Originally posted by johnny: So now we've reached a new level in the discussion....should all students be allowed to carry a concealed weapon or not? I'm not against firearms, quite the contrary, but the mere thought of sending kids to school with a gun in their pocket, makes the hair at the back of neck rise up. Something's seriously f#cked up in our society today.

SCHOOL ZONES
Is it illegal for CCW permit holders to carry guns into schools? Yes
Virginia - state law generally prohibits carrying concealed handguns into schools, even if the gun owner has a CCW permit.

http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=VA

Not sure what the law is in Virginia on aliens buying guns, but it is painfully easy to purchase a gun in Virginia if you are over the age of 18.

[True_Moose]

It seems to me that when you're talking about situations like this, a gun debate is almost a zero sum equation. I'll preface this by saying I am very pro-gun control. However, in this case, there is almost no doubt that had some of the students been armed, the rampage would've been stopped. On the other hand, putting more guns out there increases the likelihood that more people who are like the killer would be able to get ahold of them. Who knows how many potential school shooters are deterred by problems getting ahold of guns? Obviously there are no statistics, but I would imagine that, even in states with very few gun possession laws, people are deterred by those meagre laws from committing similar acts.

[Ladyzekke]

I'm sorry for your loss Skydracgrrl.

And thanks for the links. I read those two plays as well. Wow. He was definitely disturbed and just swimming in hatred.

[Cerek]

Skydracgrrl - I am deeply sorry for your personal loss.

[Aragorn1]

Originally posted by True_Moose: It seems to me that when you're talking about situations like this, a gun debate is almost a zero sum equation. I'll preface this by saying I am very pro-gun control. However, in this case, there is almost no doubt that had some of the students been armed, the rampage would've been stopped. On the other hand, putting more guns out there increases the likelihood that more people who are like the killer would be able to get ahold of them. Who knows how many potential school shooters are deterred by problems getting ahold of guns? Obviously there are no statistics, but I would imagine that, even in states with very few gun possession laws, people are deterred by those meagre laws from committing similar acts.

Already on the BBC new last night (TV), there were reports of a statment made by the NRA (IIRC, it was one of the big US pro-gun groups) saying that if everyone was armed then this wouldn't have happened, and saying this kind of thing has happened in other western countries.

I suppose that that is true in the instant case, but student+guns would be a terrible combination. It may stop mass-murders should everyone be armed but it would I think increase the rate of individual killing and accidents would go through the roof. Anyway, this isn't the place for this debate and it has been hammered out here many times before.

My thoughts and sympathies go to all those affected by this.