What is America?

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by madjim: It brightened my day immensely when I encountered J/O s like you that had just been beaten and robbed. I suggest that should you ever need help that you dial something other that 911, lest you be a f-ing hypocrite.

Oooh, a direct insult to a member? Nice.

Look, I'm allowed my love/hate relationship with authority. I'm married to a prosecutor so I'm wise to some of the practices of policemen. Want an eye opener? Go research how many prisoners are treated for "falls" in Cook County corrections. See, you can't punch them when they call you a "filthy pig," but if you slam 'em into the ground, it'll look like a fall. I've met them, and discussed it with them. I know it's true.

Look, on the one hand cops have a tough job, and most are trying to do the right thing for society. However, on the other hand, "bully" personas make the best cops. And, these people aren't gonna take anyone questioning them or insulting them. (Your post provides an excellent example, by the way.) So, even though the person a cop is arresting is perfectly allowed to call him a "filthy pig," the cop ain't gonna put up with it so he slams him face-first to the ground, and includes a citation for "resisting arrest." It's deplorable. Policing society does not mean one has a license to be "cock of the walk."

Watch the video, and see what these cops did. Completely inappropriate, especially when trying to bust teenagers for smoking a little dope. Gunpoint? You gotta be kidding me.

[Edit] Final note: how dare you take a general insult to cops personally and directly attack me? Professions have their problems and the stereotypes associated with them. Lawyers are lying snakes. Cops beat up people for no good reason. These are stereotypes, and not true of each individual. Many people get their jollies off seeing lawyers get screwed. I don't take that personally, because I know it's not directed at me but at my profession.

[ 12-03-2003, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Djinn Raffo]

Originally posted by madjim: With all its warts - STILL THE COUNTRY WITH THE MOST INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM IN THE WORLD.

I'm pretty sure that's actually any of the Commonwealth countries.

[WillowIX]

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: quote: Originally posted by madjim: With all its warts - STILL THE COUNTRY WITH THE MOST INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM IN THE WORLD.

I'm pretty sure that's actually any of the Commonwealth countries. [/QUOTE]Nope Djinn, we're not allowed to own fire arms so we're oppressed!! Don't you just want to move south of the border? Ehh, hmmm.... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Madjim, easy there fellow.

[Djinn Raffo]

Well that's true enough Willow.. but it's only handguns and assault rifles we can't own. Rifles and such are fine as long you check out ok of course.

[WillowIX]

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: Well that's true enough Willow.. but it's only handguns and assault rifles we can't own. Rifles and such are fine as long you check out ok of course.

Yeah but it's not worth to move south for a handgun when you can't find a decent game of hockey there. No come up here instead, enjoy a good game. We're friendly and likable, most of the time.

[Djinn Raffo]

Hey you can find a decent game of Hockey down there! Every time the Canucks go south to kick azz that is!

[Timber Loftis]

Eh, take off, you hosers. Quit derailing the thread, okay? [img]graemlins/whackya.gif[/img]

[Barry the Sprout]

Originally posted by madjim: a country that consists of people that are descended from people who wanted something better,and that were willing to take unbelieveable risks. With all its warts - STILL THE COUNTRY WITH THE MOST INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM IN THE WORLD.

Define freedom for me please.

(I'm a political thought student - this is always good for a laugh. The definitions of liberty and freedom are really hard to pin down in any coherent fashion.)

[Firestormalpha]

[quote]Originally posted by Barry the Sprout:

(I'm a political thought student - this is always good for a laugh. The definitions of liberty and freedom are really hard to pin down in any coherent fashion.)

Most abstract concepts are difficult to define in any clearly meaningful way. The easiest way to define them is with the word that represents them. Not that effective, is it? Kind of the same situation with emotions.

[Barry the Sprout]

I know what you mean, but the problem is that most people mean pretty much the same thing when they talk about pain, or fear, or love. However people mean all manner of different things when they talk about freedom. For example, the most accepted definition is that you are free if you are able to do what you want. However, in that case no one is free in the US as they are unable to go out and murder who they want to. Also, would you consider yourself unfree because you couldn't grow wings and fly if you wanted to? So, some people say that you are free if no one is actively stopping you from doing something. But in that case a mountain climber who falls down into a ravine and can't get out is perfectly free, and you are still not free as long as you can't murder whoever you like. You either have to come to draw up an incoherent definition of freedom or admit that not all freedom is good (e.g. a society that allows you the freedom to murder is bad, although you have more freedom in it). Basically if you want to use the word freedom coherently then you have to stop using it as a universal good, which sadly seems to be the custom of politicians everywhere. J.S. Mill would turn in his grave...

And then there's positive freedom, don't even get me started on that...