What Rights? Freedom? Conveniences?

[John D Harris]

For the sake of security.
1) What rights are you willing to give up?
2) What freedoms are you willing to give up?
3) What conveniences are you willing to give up?

I answer first
1) NONE NADA I was born under the Constitution and I will Die under the Constitution.
2) At this time I would have to say None.
3) Precious few I would be willing to have a national ID card provided it ONLY states that I have the right to be here in my country as a citizen, NO SMART CARDS with any other imformation on them. Longer waits at airports will not effect me since I carry a pocket knife, as a RIGHT, so I'll be driving where ever I go. Security checkpoints on the road. Perhaps I have nothing to fear I follow the laws, provided it is no differant than DUI checkpoints.

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"the memories of a man in his old age,
are deeds of a man in his prime"

[J.J.]

DAMN STRAIGHT!
We as a peopld do not have to, and should string up those who suggest giving up civil liberties in the wake of the attack. It will happen again, and worse, if we don't get enough of them to dtop their plans to set off a nuke in our country as well. we need to focus on violating the rights and persons of those who planned and abetted this act of war.

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Unstinting Gaurdian of Children
Defender of Those Unable To

[John D Harris]

J.J. where in Montana do you live? My wife and I are thinking of moving there in the future, after we get the kids off our payroll.

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"the memories of a man in his old age,
are deeds of a man in his prime"

[Sazerac]

I think it was Thomas Jefferson who stated, "Those who yield an ounce of their liberty for an ounce of security, lose both, and deserve neither." I see that being just as true today as it was over 200 years ago.

In short, although I am willing to put up with heightened security for the sake of quelling terrorism, there is no way I would be willing to give up a single liberty or right that I currently have as an American citizen in the name of "being safe." Caged rats are "safe", but then, they're in a cage.



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[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Sazerac: I think it was Thomas Jefferson who stated, "Those who yield an ounce of their liberty for an ounce of security, lose both, and deserve neither." I see that being just as true today as it was over 200 years ago. In short, although I am willing to put up with heightened security for the sake of quelling terrorism, there is no way I would be willing to give up a single liberty or right that I currently have as an American citizen in the name of "being safe." Caged rats are "safe", but then, they're in a cage.

Well said Saz BTW I always liked T.J.


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"the memories of a man in his old age,
are deeds of a man in his prime"

[J.J.]

Originally posted by John D Harris: J.J. where in Montana do you live? My wife and I are thinking of moving there in the future, after we get the kids off our payroll.

Great Falls is in the middle of montana, one of the places where you can still afford to buy property. I have quite a few pics, sent you an email. if you want some, let me know.

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Unstinting Gaurdian of Children
Defender of Those Unable To

well its a bit of a false dilemma as there is no need to give up either, If some countries reconsidered their foreign policy and people acted less emotionally and more rationally in decesion makeing there would be less trouble.


[This message has been edited by Dramnek_Ulk (edited 09-15-2001).]

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: well its a bit of a false dilemma as there is no need to give up either, If some countries reconsidered their foreign policy and people acted less emotionally and more rationally in decesion makeing there would be less trouble. [This message has been edited by Dramnek_Ulk (edited 09-15-2001).]

Hear hear! By the way, I'm not quite clear on why America continues to support Israel in their 34 year illegal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza? Surely it would be a lot less trouble to just butt out?

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[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by John D Harris: For the sake of security. 1) What rights are you willing to give up? 2) What freedoms are you willing to give up? 3) What conveniences are you willing to give up? I answer first 1) NONE NADA I was born under the Constitution and I will Die under the Constitution. 2) At this time I would have to say None. 3) Precious few I would be willing to have a national ID card provided it ONLY states that I have the right to be here in my country as a citizen, NO SMART CARDS with any other imformation on them. Longer waits at airports will not effect me since I carry a pocket knife, as a RIGHT, so I'll be driving where ever I go. Security checkpoints on the road. Perhaps I have nothing to fear I follow the laws, provided it is no differant than DUI checkpoints.

I tend to agree, John D. People who say we must surrender freedom are missing the point entirely. Freedom, in my opinion, is to be valued more than security.

[Liliara]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: I tend to agree, John D. People who say we must surrender freedom are missing the point entirely. Freedom, in my opinion, is to be valued more than security.

I agree wholeheartedly! The only one I would be willing to give up are certain conveniences, but, I've also thought we are a bit spoiled in that area anyway! IMHO

OMG, We actually agree! LOL


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Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

And you never did think that it ever would happen again, in America did you? And you never did think that we'd ever get together again, but we damn sure fooled ya. We're walkin' real proud and we're talkin' real loud again, in America. And you never did think that it ever would happen again.... (Charlie Daniels)

[This message has been edited by Liliara (edited 09-15-2001).]