Wiz 8 dual-classing?

[Ikarius]

Hiyas folks,
I'm an old wiz-7 hack, and I went through wiz 8 a while ago, but wasn't entirely happy with my party, and I'm looking to run through it again. Anyhow, I'm looking at what I'm doing for my 2nd party, and I'm recalling that dual-classing in 8 isn't nearly as effective as it was in 7, but I'm having trouble recalling the details. Anyone got some good solid thoughts on dual-classing, good levels to break over, etc? In wiz 7, when you dual classed, your stats would drop back to the minimum for the new class. Is this still the case in wiz 8?


Cheers
Ikarius

[Scatter]

No. Multiclassing in W-8 has a few limited uses, and mostly good in a Solo or Duo. Starting a Ninja or Ranger as Alchemist is useful for having Heal and Stamina right away, and you can pump DEX, too. But you have to be a Hobbit. Starting a Bard then switching to Samurai/Rogue/Fighter at L8 gives you some extra magic (most notably Magic Screen and Haste). Some like to go Bishop then Lord to build magic then have the HP regen plus use the better equipment. There are a few others, but it is limited, as you don't go back to 0 XP, so it keeps taking more to level. Stats keep building, though.

[Nightowl2]

The big problem with class switching is how Wiz 8 handles levels. Say you had a level 10 fighter and switched to Lord. So now you have F10/L1. Only the game considers you to be level 11 overall, and now you'll need as much experience (as a lord) as an eleventh-level character needs to move up to level 12, even though your Lord is only L1.

Many players only do a switch when the first class is maxed out. Or, they may switch for a short while to something else to obtain certain abilities, then go back to the original class. Or the reverse, start with one class for the abilities, then switch to something else for the rest of the game.

It's not like the old days, where you could switch around from class to class and build up uber characters.

Nightowl2

[Ikarius]

Thanks for the replies! Okay, so multiclassing is a lot more similiar to DnD. Glad to hear that no stats reset, otherwise it would be a total waste to do. Unfortunately, I love tweaking characters, and having everyone "pure" just feels boring to me.

Here's what I'm thinking so far:

1. Fighter - Not sure which race.. maybe dwarf, maybe dracon, who knows. Meat shield and eventual intent is to dual-wield some nice sword and diamond-eyes. Doubt this character will ever dual-class.

2. Samurai - probably felpurr. I just like the kitty samurais....

3. Bard - splash in one level as rogue to power-train stealth. Once bard hits L14 or 18, will switch to something else, but not sure what. I could think about making a female mook bard, and then switching to ranger for bows and giant sword.... but it doesn't entirely feel right.... oh, what to do.

4. stealthy-type character... ninja? rogue? Really not sure what I want to do here...

5. Bishop - probably fairy. May splash one level of rogue and power-train stealth. Otherwise, pretty much pure.

6. ??? Not sure what I want here. I think I want another caster, probably another bishop, but really not sure what I want. Maybe start as an alchemist for a few levels, see about doing some serious skill work on alchemy, then switch to bishop. If that's what I do, probably a gnome.

Thoughts, suggestions? I'm very interested to hear what suggestions folks have for slots 4 and 6.


Cheers
Ikarius

[ 03-03-2005, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: Ikarius ]

[Klutz]

Fighter: Take your pick. Lizardman for great Vitality and overall Fighter stats. Dracon is good also. Dwarf suffers a bit due to low spd & dex, but will be strong & sturdy.

Samurai: Felpurr is my favorite too and very effective as a Samurai, though Hobbit is a tad better.

Bard: I like switching a Bard later to something simple like a Fighter or Rogue that doesn't have too many new skills (specifically magic skills) to pick up, but you could do Ranger also.

Stealth: Rogue for simplicity; Ninja for more diversity skillwise. Since the Bard can take care of locks and pickpocketing, how about a Monk for stealth plus martial arts specialization?

Bishop: Faerie is my favorite also. Elf is good also and less restrictive armor-wise and item-wise.

6: I'd say Ranger for first time through, and Mook is a great race for Ranger. A second Bishop is also an option, or one of whatever your favorite pure spellcaster is (say Rawulf Priest or Elf Alchemist).


Potential party #1:
Dracon Fighter
Felpurr Samurai
Hobbit Bard -> Rogue
Human Monk
Faerie Bishop
Mook Ranger

Potential party #2:
Lizardman Fighter
Felpurr Samurai
Mook Bard -> Ranger
Hobbit Rogue
Elf Bishop
Rawulf Priest

[Ikarius]

Hmm. I think I'm getting close here. I forgot that wiz 8 has the lizardman as well as dracon race.... Here's what I'm thinking at this point.

1. Lizardman Fighter
2. Felpurr Samurai
3. Female Mook Bard - splash 1 level rogue to powertrain steath, switch to ranger once L18.
4. Fairy Monk (!!!!) - switch to ninja once party is capable of killing Don Barlone- in the meantime monk probably uses best staff he can lay hands on.
5. Fairy Bishop - splash 1 level rogue to powertrain stealth
6. Second Bishop - not sure which race, maybe elf, maybe gnome.

I'm thinking this should be an interesting group to play with... [img]smile.gif[/img]


Ikarius

Addendum- Aaack. I forgot about the ranger "scout" ability. Something you really do want to have around most of the time. Grrr. Got to think about this some more....

[ 03-03-2005, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: Ikarius ]

[Nightowl2]

Faerie monk? I wouldn't want to try that myself. That race is best in the magic department. I've had kitty monks, though, that work out well.

Otherwise, your two parties look pretty good. If you don't want a ranger, remember there's a psionic spell that does the same thing. Doesn't last too long, but a good way to being up psionic abilities without having to fight.

Nightowl2

[Scatter]

Human/Elf make good Monks, too.

The spell for scouting is more effective than the Ranger skill, and it's actually available to students of both Psionics and Wizardry.

And you don't really need a sixth character. In fact, you don't really need a second one, but your first game should definately not be a Solo.

[Ikarius]

Well, the reason for going with a faerie monk is.... he can use a staff- maybe zatochai bo when I get one, until the point at which I can knock off Don Barlone and get that beautiful weapon he holds. And in the meantime, the Faerie will be learning some Psionics. Once I knock off The Don, the faerie will go ninja, and stay there. When it's all said and done, my fighter and samurai will be pure single-class, my Bard will stay pure until L18, and my two bishops will only be splashing one level each of rogue for learning stealth. The only character whom I'm taking a big risk with in multiclassing is the faerie monk/ninja.

Scatter- as far as soloing goes, I don't really enjoy it. I enjoy building parties that compliment each other... but to each their own, right?

Ikarius

[Wereboar]

1. Fighter - main tank, especially in small parties

2. Samurai - will recieve most melee damage in your party, along with a fighter (better armor) and a stealth character

3. Bard - i wouln't switch for ranger, since i assume the ranged criticals depend on ranger level vs moster level, not on character level. Aside from ranged criticals, you could just stay bard, and use bows as your primary attack (as i usually do with bards - no melee).
Common use for bard is to switch to fighter, to get much higher damage output. In your pary, if you already have a fighter. I would either keep the bard as bard, or switch to fighter, and use no other fighter.
With samurai, bard->fighter, and (rogue(ninja/nomk), you alread have 3 front liners.

4. stealthy-type character - ninjas are hard to develop (at least in expert mode). Rogue gives very high damage output (second only to fighter). Monk is 3rd in terms of damage (if high strength and martial arts).

Don't try your idea with a fairy monk, switching to ninja. You'll have nearly no benefit from your monk levels, but further delay spells. When do you expect to get a zaitochi bo? I never found one before rapax areas, and thats character level 11 at least. On the other side, i've killed Don with 4 character parties at level 9-10 (on expert ironman). So better start as a ninja, and don't waste stat points to match the requirements for monk.

5. Bishop - if it's your only spellcaster, fairy is a good choice. But if you have several casters, the mana rageneration isn't that useful. In addition, you have fast reasting, as long as you keep the bard. So since bishops can use much better armor than fairies, i'd say use elf for bishop.

6. another caster - in this case i'd recommend fairy mage (mages can'T use much armor anyhow), and elf bishop.

Wait a moment - you want to train stealth. So forget the note about samurai being primary target, and the armor of the bishop. But expect a boring easy game.