Kazaa (!) Sues Movie, Recording Industries

[Night Stalker]

Putting more content on the CD without some form of protection would just open opportunities for that to be pirreted as well. Plus there is only so much space on a CD - 650 MB. My problem is with the cost of CD vs the cost of DVDs. They are about the same, and the DVD has 6.5 the amout of data. Not discounting the work the artists put in the work, it's just a DVD is a much better value for the dollar.

There HAS to be a reasonable and workable COMPROMISE that doesn't approach the level of abuse and Orwellian intrusiveness of the Micro$haft solution: Palladium, while still protecting the content producer's intrests. I have some ideas, but M$ has a bigger megaphone.

[Leonis]

It's amazing that the majority of people are pissed off at the RIAA, record companies and artists.

Fact is, if the millions of people who commit these crimes every day (who are so gutless, they would never steal from a bricks and mortar store or someone's home), didn't steal - there would be no debate here. Plain and simple.

Get mad at your friends, colleagues etc...

No amount of twisting and clever rationalisation can get around they fact that stealing from someone else is a crime and IMO is immoral - and if and when it happens to you, you get very, very angry.

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by WOLFGIR: Perhaps the cd´s you buy should include more material? Interviews with the artists, already perfectly ripped MP3´s, alot of material form artists hompage?

Good idea. Music videos for example. Peter Gabriel foretold of the ALbum-video years ago but it hasn't eventuated yet. Maybe this is an incentive. More expenses though. More creatives to pay as well.[/QUOTE]I believe the Super Furry Animals have already released a special DVD along with their latest album featuring videos of all of those songs... So it's already been done. Though I really prefer normal CD's without extra features; mostly because the ones with special features often can't be played properly in certain types of players. I'd rather have them include those bonus-features on a seperate disc.

[ 02-03-2003, 03:14 AM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

[Kaltia]

I haven't read beyond Yorick's third post(His posts make my head hurt ), so if what I say is wrong...*shrugs*

I agree with the music industry. I don't use Kazaa. If I want something, say, music, I buy it and copy it onto my computer as media files for my own personal use. I don't think that's fair, if I have to shell out £20 for an album worth of music, why shouldn't anyone else? It seems to me that those who support Kazaa are a lil greedy themselves....cba to pay any money, and whinge about how much CDs cost. I probably have less money than anyone else here. I can afford to buy CDs once in a blue moon. I don't think it's fair that free downloads are available. (I could dl them. I have ADSL. I just don't want to.)

[dragon_lord]

You are legally entitled to make one backup copy here in Australia, though if the original cd is sold the backup make be destroyed. An interesting side note: "An Australian Study has shown that online contracts and end user agreements could strip users of their rights. The Copyright Law Committee has released its report, Copyright Contract, which was commissioned by federal Attorney General Daryl Williams last year. It found that many contracts signed by software users were in excess of the law. In fact, under Australian law you cant have agreements which overwrite copyright laws. Furthermore, the Computer Programs Amendment Act allows users to make back up copies of programs, security test them, run error correction and even reverse engineer code for the development of new technology to work with the original. The report recommends introducing legislation which will ensure the EULA elements which contravene the Copyright Act have no effect. As it stands at the moment, to break these contracts would take expensive test cases which is a good deterrent for trying to protect their rights." Quoted from PC Power Play (Magazine). The one thing i have a problem with in this court case against kazaa is its done by companies in a another country. It really gets me mad that their trying to force THEIR laws on occupants of another country! Im sorry but the last time i looked the US didnt own the world, their laws stop at their own borders.

The kazaa network from what i understand is not centralized, they have no control over what is transferred, files being transferred wont even pass through any of their servers either and they ask you not to share illegal material IIRC. So is it really kazaa's fault for sharing of unauthorized material? Isnt the responsibility with the individual user?

The way things are going now with companies trying to come up with new ways of protecting their material is clearing not working and probably never will. As has been said when ever they try to protect a cd, its broken in 10 mins. Microsofts copy protection on Win XP was broken BEFORE it was even released! Copy protection does nothing but hurt legitimate consumers. Having to a have the cd in the drive when starting up a game is a TOTAL pain in the ass, and completely useless at stopping piracy. Certain copying protection can actually cause an early death for CD-Rom Drives and often will refuse to work on older drives. Once again the legitimate consumer pays for the few. Large companies have used piracy as an excuse for high prices for years, even though im yet to see any evidence that its affecting sales. Most people who pirate material wouldnt buy legitimate copies anyway. Maybe because they dont desire the material that much [not up to scratch in terms of quality?], costs too much, seen it all before, no value for money? Perhaps if the music/software industry actually came up with some new ideas people might buy legitimate copies and the term SCUM (Stop Copying Unauthorized Material) would no longer apply. Isnt it a better idea to stop the cause of the problem (peoples attitudes, freeloading etc) towards copyright then trying to do the impossible; stopping piracy all together. Or trying to work with the emerging technologies of the internet to curb its illegal use.

I agree with the guy (couldnt find the post again) who posted about downloading anime. Distributors and TV stations etc are too blind to see a market, often your only choice is to wait YEARS for them to release a DVD in your region (bah! Region coding is also another form of piracy protection thats just stupid in my opinion) or go online and download episodes lights years ahead of local distribution (example: 17 or so episodes released locally on DVD of Rumouri Kenshin, go on the net and wow you discover theres another 70+).

>> I hope that made sense, im just about ready to fall asleep.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Leonis: It's amazing that the majority of people are pissed off at the RIAA, record companies and artists. Fact is, if the millions of people who commit these crimes every day (who are so gutless, they would never steal from a bricks and mortar store or someone's home), didn't steal - there would be no debate here. Plain and simple. Get mad at your friends, colleagues etc... No amount of twisting and clever rationalisation can get around they fact that stealing from someone else is a crime and IMO is immoral - and if and when it happens to you, you get very, very angry.

A was with a good friend last night, and we're very close so I have a lot of grace and there's no condemnation in what I'm about to say. However it does show some light on an alarming attitude that exists at the moment.

She offered to burn me a CD of David Gray whom we saw. I'm now a fan so I said "no thanks, I love it so much I'd prefer to buy it - to give the money to the artist/investors so that such music keeps being made."

She found this hard to believe, ("really") and then tried the angle of "well, don't you download songs off the net?"

I said, "no I don't". She was incredulous. "Do unto others...." I quoted. She acknowledged and commended my attitude. Albeit with some bewilderment.

The fact that a person found it unbelievable that someone would not download songs off the net would indicate to me that she most probably had not yet met someone who does not. This person is a popular woman with a wide social network.

That was a chilling realisation of the tide artists, record companies and the RIAA are swimming against. It grieves me that people get so upset and angry about people trying to protect their own proprty. Property they have either made or invested money in.

Not good.

[ 02-03-2003, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Nachtrafe]

Originally posted by dragon_lord: You are legally entitled to make one backup copy here in Australia, though if the original cd is sold the backup make be destroyed.

That's how it works(in theory at least) in the US. The problem arises when you allow an entity like the RIAA to start imposing laws to 'protect' themselves. That's a bit like asking the fox to guard your henhouse. The RIAA doesn't give a damn about my rights, the rights of the artists, or the rights of anyone besides themselves. Personally, I have not one jot of sympathy for them. I do however, have a great deal for many artists. Greedy (*)&@$%(*#@^ like Metallica I could cheerfully shoot, but people without their own labels, without the immense power of multiple millions of dollars backing them, etc...those are the artists I feel bad for.

Yes, I've downloaded MP3's, and yes, I knew that it was illegal. And, at the time, I didn't care. Since then, I've stopped to take moral stock, and have changed my practices. And I dont think I'm all that rare of an individual. But that's just MO. Besides, I prefer to buy CD's, mainly because of the higher quality. But, I also reserve the right to rip MP3's off of them and make compilations and playlists. A right that the RIAA would love to take away from me, and, I wont stand for it. Same as my right to make backup copies of any software I buy...a right that is all but gone in the current era.

I also have to agree with Mel. Charging the majority of the consumers for a minority's crimes is *WRONG*. There has got to be an equitable solution, but I'm damned if I can think of one. But I, personally, will fight tooth and nail to maintain what little freedom I still have on the net.

And sorry Leonis, Yorick...I do, and will continue to disagree with both of you that the problem is filesharing. There is nothing inherently wrong, illegal, or immoral about P2P networks. Having the capacity to commit a crime does NOT mean that you will commit one. I have the capacity to commit all kinds of crimes, just by being able to go online...but I dont. Should some corporate swine be able to take away my rights just because I *might, someday, possibly* commit a crime? I dont think so.

I actually find myself, much to my amazement, agreeing with Bardan. His post illustrates quite well the problem with sucn laws and regulations. They *are* a slippery slope. Yorick, I think you are incorrect to just dismiss his claim. It's a very small step from 'I'm taking away a little of your freedom to stop people from stealing my property' to 'I'm taking away a lot of your freedom because you *might* do something else that harms me'. One of the wonders, and dangers of a free society is that freedom. We have to be willing to take risks. We have to accept the idea that me might, possibly come under harm from another free person. But we also have to trust our fellow freemen not to harm us. Sort of the MAD theory of society.

Anyway...I'm rambling, as I'm doing this post between other things. I hope it made sense. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 02-03-2003, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: Nachtrafe ]

[Morgeruat]

Originally posted by dragon_lord: [QB]I agree with the guy (couldnt find the post again) who posted about downloading anime. Distributors and TV stations etc are too blind to see a market, often your only choice is to wait YEARS for them to release a DVD in your region (bah! Region coding is also another form of piracy protection thats just stupid in my opinion) QB]

diferent region coding isn't so much of a copy protection as a difference in signal format for TV's and movies (games, etc), in the US we use NTSC which has a frame rate of IIRC 30fps, while the European/japanese etc, PAL has a frame rate of 25fps. playing a VHS tape you purchsed in the US on a PAL VCR (that doesn't have a PAL/NTSC adapter) is not a good idea, the same principle exists with video games, DVD's, etc.

[ 02-03-2003, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: Morgeruat ]

[Leonis]

Originally posted by Kaltia: I haven't read beyond Yorick's third post(His posts make my head hurt ), so if what I say is wrong...*shrugs* I agree with the music industry. I don't use Kazaa. If I want something, say, music, I buy it and copy it onto my computer as media files for my own personal use. I don't think that's fair, if I have to shell out £20 for an album worth of music, why shouldn't anyone else? It seems to me that those who support Kazaa are a lil greedy themselves....cba to pay any money, and whinge about how much CDs cost. I probably have less money than anyone else here. I can afford to buy CDs once in a blue moon. I don't think it's fair that free downloads are available. (I could dl them. I have ADSL. I just don't want to.)

[img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
You legend!

[ 02-04-2003, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: Leonis ]