Religion Thread II (originally posted by Callum Kerr)

[Cloudbringer]

Mod mode here-

I'm reminding everyone that this is a family-oriented board.
Gratuitious use of the f-word is not acceptable on Ironworks. Ziroc posted about it a month or two ago, saying he'd warn once then suspend those who ignore warnings, but some people may have missed it.

Grungi, please take note. I notice you use it pretty often in a variety of situations and most likely don't realize you're doing it.

Thanks.

[ 12-16-2002, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]

[Grungi]

im saying fck arent i? isnt that okay? if i put a u in it was by accident, i know when im saying fck but i do know about the rule so im trying not to put a "u" in it, dont tell me fck isnt allowed either? (i do hate all that family stuff insofar as rpg's are normally all about violence anyway and i take swearing over violence anyday plus i know 6 year olds with a fouler mouth than me these days )

can i use fk? darnit i use swearing as punctuation what about cnt? or biatch?

(im not being faecitious, seriously can i use those words?)

[Cloudbringer]

Grungi, even those 'abbreviations' should be avoided, to the best of my knowledge. See this thread of Ziroc's about 'Cussing and the F word'
http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/cg...0;t=011575;p=1

Basically, he says the worst of the swear words should be avoided- but he won't give anyone a hard time about the occasional 'damn' or '@$#%$'. He did specifically say not to try posting f*** or variations.

For further clarification, I would suggest you email Ziroc directly.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Grungi: cloud read! pls read what im saying its not misinformed or misjudged i belief its the same, thats my opinion, they worship the same god, tell the same history, i believe whatever you call it, christians, jews, muslims whatever its all the same thing, thats my view on it, and you cant argue with it, its my opinion and wont change, its well informed because i have read the main books etc, even sikh, hindu etc, religion is religion its all the same thing is what i believe, just the way humans carry it out is different, all the gods of the hindu faith for example combine to create one divine being composed of many parts, so again GOD, you see what im getting at? im NOT saying christianity IS judaism, im saying for me they represent the same thing, ah fck its hard to explain on here. what i believe is different about religion is the cultural aspect and what the people say and do, and thats where problems begin, and im asking a simple question on why the jews do things like they do, can someone jewish please answer me the question thats the only religious teaching id like to hear today

I think I understand where you're coming from here, Grungi, but I think you need to also realize that - while the differences between various religions is not important to you, it is very important to those who follow those religions. And you do have a tendency to "mix and mingle" the practices of different religions together.

Look at it this....suppose I were to say that American football, Australian football, and Rugby were all basically the same game with only a few minor differences between them. Technically, I could say I'm correct because they ALL follow the same basic format of teams playing on a large field. They both use oblong balls and the teams score by getting the ball across a goal at the end of the field.

To a person that isn't interested in these sports at all, the fact that Americans are fullly padded while Australians and Rugby players aren't is nothing more than a cosmetic difference.....but I sure wouldn't want to be the person telling the Rugby players that their scrum line is really no different than the "line of scrimmage" in the American version.

To all the fans and players that follow these games with even the slightest bit of interest, these variations represent 3 totally different games.....not just variations on the same theme.

Your reference to the "black coats and hats" worn by Jews is the same as me asking why the Americans wear pads to their scrum line. I'm mixing practices from two different games into one example.

I can also tell you for a fact that not all Jewish people wear the black coats and hat. My wife works in an office with 3 doctors...one of whom is Jewish. I have never seen him wear a black coat and hat ever -- and I've known him for about 6 years now.

So just remember that the issues and religious practices you are discussing are very important to some of the other members, even if they aren't to you.

[Grungi]

argrgrhgr thats not answering my question , i KNOW not all jews wear it, im not stupid, im asking WHY do some normally the leaders etc tend to wear them and sport those beards, im asking for informations sake, i really want to know. I honestly dont care whether other people differentiate as obviously they do, i was just pointing out how i feel, i just didnt explain what i meant well and so people are completely misunderstanding what im saying so i give up on this topic i think, dont want to alienate more people.

and btw rugby aussie rules and american football are all pretty much the same [img]tongue.gif[/img] though i prefer rugby.

and ill stick with fk then cloud, seems like people said that on plenty of threads with no problems so ill go with that, id go mad without profanity [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Grungi: argrgrhgr thats not answering my question , i KNOW not all jews wear it, im not stupid, im asking WHY do some normally the leaders etc tend to wear them and sport those beards, im asking for informations sake, i really want to know. I honestly dont care whether other people differentiate as obviously they do, i was just pointing out how i feel, i just didnt explain what i meant well and so people are completely misunderstanding what im saying so i give up on this topic i think, dont want to alienate more people. and btw rugby aussie rules and american football are all pretty much the same [img]tongue.gif[/img] though i prefer rugby. and ill stick with fk then cloud, seems like people said that on plenty of threads with no problems so ill go with that, id go mad without profanity [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I believe that Orthodox Jews wear the Beardsince IIRC, there’s something in their holy book about men being made different from women thus they have beards and therefore since god has given them beards to them different from women They should not shave them.
As for the clothes, Since The general thrust of Judamism was that the jews were a chosen people they should keep seprate from others, and maintain their own communities (on of the contributors towards prejudice IIRC) etc, arranged marriages within the community etc IIRC, and possibly the Clothes have something to do with that?

HTH.
HAND.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Grungi: argrgrhgr thats not answering my question , i KNOW not all jews wear it, im not stupid, im asking WHY do some normally the leaders etc tend to wear them and sport those beards, im asking for informations sake, i really want to know. I honestly dont care whether other people differentiate as obviously they do, i was just pointing out how i feel, i just didnt explain what i meant well and so people are completely misunderstanding what im saying so i give up on this topic i think, dont want to alienate more people. and btw rugby aussie rules and american football are all pretty much the same [img]tongue.gif[/img] though i prefer rugby. and ill stick with fk then cloud, seems like people said that on plenty of threads with no problems so ill go with that, id go mad without profanity [img]tongue.gif[/img]

There are different branches of Judaism.

Orthodox
Hasidism
Reformed
Conservative
Kabalism
Zionism
Reconstructionsim
Jews for Jesus (Messianics)

Instead of getting frustrated, why didn't you have a look online? It's easy. Here is one site: http://religion-cults.com/Judaism/brans-j.htm

The different branches believe different things, or have varying interpretations. Hasids are the ones who don't cut the hair of their temples for example, and wear black coats/hats everywhere. They have the 'curly bits' dangling in front of their ears. It's based on a biblical command taken literally to this day. Reformed and even orthodox don't adhere to that.

Orthodox won't play sport on the sabbath. Reformed will.

Happy now Grungi?

[Grungi]

yep thanks [img]smile.gif[/img]

and why i didnt check online is cos online manuals etc dont give a proper view, i want to know direct from people, i rarely check manuals, people are far better sources of information, plus you always get good doses of bias from people which can be very revealing [img]smile.gif[/img]

anyhows yes both the posts above explain a little bit more, also its interesting the point about beards is the same as in the muslim faith, yet again two sworn enemies (well only the idiots) with the same ideas and ideals, funny really.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Grungi: yep thanks [img]smile.gif[/img] and why i didnt check online is cos online manuals etc dont give a proper view, i want to know direct from people, i rarely check manuals, people are far better sources of information, plus you always get good doses of bias from people which can be very revealing [img]smile.gif[/img] anyhows yes both the posts above explain a little bit more, also its interesting the point about beards is the same as in the muslim faith, yet again two sworn enemies (well only the idiots) with the same ideas and ideals, funny really.

It's good to see that things are starting to fall into place for you [img]smile.gif[/img] Perhaps, and this is just an observation on my part, a problem you have is that you expect people to be robots. Ie: follow strictures to the letter with no room for intuition or spur-of-the-moment adaptability. People simply arn't robots. They have emotions and whims that grip them in the heat of passion/frustration/elation/you name it. People adhere to organized religious beliefs because it allows for ease of reconition of like-minded individuals. The strictures and commandments adhered to are a moral and spiritual guideline, a blueprint for association with the divine and with their spiritual community. They arn't intended to be taken as robotic computer code [img]smile.gif[/img] So long as one takes on and accepts the greater message of the religion, that is all that is needed. Pedantic obsession over the bureaucratic details often blinds one to the greater purpose of the faith and sets one off on an unintended path 'ifs' and 'buts'.

Just relax Grunji my man There's plenty of good fun to be had both with and without adherance to religious tenets. If you open your mind a bit and embrace everyone as equals, as living humans and not as robots that should be following instructions more closely, you'll find that everything starts to make alot more sense.

[Grungi]

not you as well its GRUNGI hard g explained on another post, gah

and no i dont expect people to "religiously" follow stricture, i expect them to try, because in my experience i have had people of different faiths try and convert me by gibbering their crp in my face and saying i should do this this and this then not doing it themselves, that kind of hypocrisy angers me, its those kind of people i expect to follow it religiously, thats the kind of people im really aiming alot at (ie our dear reverend who told us all about sinning and how we should do so this this this blah then molested repeated numbers of small boys)

i know people arent robots, i dont understand how people are reading my posts and coming back with comments like this??? im obviously not explaining myself well i know people VERY well im extremly good at judging peoples characters even from the first time i meet them, and i havent been wrong yet in my life not once, such as my girlfriends sisters ex-boyfriend, i met him first time and my first thought was hes all smiles and fun and everyone seems to like him, but i find him false and i think i dont like this guy, i have this gut feeling hes really nasty at heart, and lo and behold 9 months or so down the line he puts her in hospital, threatens my girlfriend and does all sorts of other nasty stuff, then still tries to come back to me all smiles as though ill help him get her back, then threatens me behind my back, trying to get me sacked. Anyhows thats one example out of thousands, i havent yet been wrong about a person i met, so i consider myself a good judge of character based on that, and a good judge of alot of things (yeah call it arrogance if you want but its based on fact IMO) im just obviously very very bad at explaining myself on this forum because people keep misunderstanding and misintepreting my points.

anyhows my mind is VERY open, more open than most people i know frankly, i accept religion for other people but i dont need it myself, my mind is strong enough to go without it thanks, all i need to rely on is myself, though obviously for me i find good friends to be a far greater commodity than religion or a divine being, people need to believe something normally, i simply dont, dont ask why cos i couldnt explain, i just dont. I dont think all people are robots and im obviously aware of emotions and i think everyone is equal until the prove themselves to be less equal (ie people like saddam and bin laden i consider myself superior to them whether thats right or not i dont care)

again dont jump on things im saying if you dont fully understand what im posting, ask me to try and explain first each point and ill do my best, im just terrible at explaining things properly on here and it just gets people telling me im saying things that i didnt mean at all