Tactics for melee party

[Ultra Marine]

I finished iwd (with how installed) previously with tactics such as summoning, holding & excellent range support. All my melee guys are on bows except the cleric/druid on slings.

From reading the posts here, you are talking about making tanks out of paladins and other melee class and putting them in the front row. I did that for my paladin and my gnome fighter and they don’t last 10-15 seconds as tank on insane mode. I’ve already reloaded many times in dragons eye and before that in temple of the forgotten something. Somehow I am doing something wrong. I cannot survive without summons.

Please help.

[Dundee Slaytern]

Short of easier modes, I do not think many people play at the higher level difficulties without summons.

In general, the tank just needs to distract the enemy long enough for the casters to conjure their summons; then the summons take over the role of beating bags.

The only time you should make the enemy focus on one party member is when that party member is immuned to the enemies' attacks.

[krunchyfrogg]

The thing that stinks is that it's pretty hard to get summons in IWD. I'm having trouble finding scrolls early on in the game, and Clerics and Druids don't get the option either.

I miss Sorcerers in these early games!

[Azred]

Clerics get Animate Dead at 5th level, and Druids have all sorts of animal summoning spells. In HoF, I rely on the animated skeletons to do the grunt work, until I can get my fighter up to >= 85% resistance to either slashing or crushing attacks.

Short of that, lots of Hold Person, Horror, Hold Monster, Web, Stinking Cloud, etc. Any spell that incapacitates your foes. Acid Fog is the best. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[Aerich]

You aren't doing anything wrong, specifically, but you may need some tweaking in your spell usage. It's normal for monsters at higher difficulty levels to go through an unprepared party like a laser through swiss cheese.

In tanking on Insane, you need some serious spell and item support, which is why only certain characters make adequate tanks. It's all about damage resistance and/or great AC. Because of the reliance on items and spells, sometimes you won't reach optimum tanking capacity until lvl 10 or better.

Paladin - use the innate protection from evil (under the special abilities tab), have protection from evil 10' radius, the best shield you can find or buy, preferably the Blur belt obtainable from Orrick, and the best combination of armor and other artifacts (it may be normal plate mail with a ring of protection in the early-to-mid game). A bard singing War Chant of the Sith gives a +2 AC bonus also. Draw Upon Holy Might increases your Dexterity for better AC. Ideally, your best (often only) tank should have an AC better than -15, preferably -20, including its spell buffs.

Fighter/Cleric - use as much of the above strategy as possible, DUHM is a must for offensive as well as defensive reasons, and Shield of Lathander (no weapon-based damage for 3 rounds) and Entropy Shield (+6 AC, immunity to missiles, saving throw bonuses) are dynamite when you get them.

Fighter/Mage - use Stoneskin, Mirror Image (with additional ones memorized), and any other spells that can better your AC - Spirit Armor, Blur, etc. This character probably shouldn't try tanking until after finding a suit of elven chain in the Hand or acquiring one of the high (er, low) AC robes from HoW or Lower Dorn's.

Fighter/Druid - this character is only a successful tank for two reasons: Static Charge and water elemental shapechange. Multiple Static Charges gives you a good chance to zap 'em before they get you, and the druid's water elemental (but not the water elemental summons, strangely) has good slashing resistance.

The key to successful tanking, as implied by Dundee and Azred, is to control how much you are getting hit by a) having great AC or resistances and b) controlling how many enemies can hit you at any one time by the use of spells or summons and c) weakening your melee enemies with spells, summons, or concentrated missile fire before, during, and after they get to your tanks. Against unweakened enemies (those not already damaged or Slowed, Held, cursed, etc), you should be trying to do far more damage with ranged weapons than melee weapons. Once they are weakened, the job of your tanks is to pound them into mush while avoiding much damage.

Note that many of the spells I've listed above do not have long durations, and even the best tank at higher difficulty levels without dominant damage resistances cannot fight for hours or ignore tactical placement (e.g. in a doorway where only one or two melee enemies can attack). In a really tough fight, you might only be able to take full-strength attacks for a few rounds, but that time should be enough for your spellcasters and/or archers to cripple the offensive ability of your enemies. Non-tanks should be concentrating missile fire on damaged enemies or the greatest threat to your party (spellcasters, superb melee threats). The above strategies are obviously most effective when using parties that are heavy on both spellcasters and warriors, even if the warriors "only" shoot.

[krunchyfrogg]

Originally posted by Azred: Clerics get Animate Dead at 5th level, and Druids have all sorts of animal summoning spells.

Problem is, Druids don't get any summoning spells until 4th level spellcasting (9th level Druid, IIRC). Then they get TONS of spells like that, but it's still a decent wait.

[Sir Degrader]

Well, your living on a prayer until then I guess, until you hit lvl 9.

[Aerich]

Actually, it's 7th level, which is not too long to wait. The giant insect summons is actually better than the animal summons at that level; just beware of having your own tanks stunned by bombardier beetles. Don't be shy about hasting your own summons.

Because of the lack of summons in the early going, you should be casting Web or Entangle in almost any fight against 3+ opponents, as your tanks will not be able to take much of a beating.

I prefer to put all my best AC items on a single tank; once the primary tank is engaged and targeted, secondary tanks can enter the fray. However, it is generally safer and more efficient to focus-fire on single enemies with your remaining characters.

[ 01-07-2006, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: Aerich ]

[Azred]

Originally posted by krunchyfrogg: quote: Originally posted by Azred: Clerics get Animate Dead at 5th level, and Druids have all sorts of animal summoning spells.

Problem is, Druids don't get any summoning spells until 4th level spellcasting (9th level Druid, IIRC). Then they get TONS of spells like that, but it's still a decent wait. [/QUOTE]Your point is well taken. I can't clearly recall the last time I used a druid in IWD. [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img] I think I tried one out once, just to see what they were like, but didn't focus on the animal summons.

[Aerich]

It's 7th level, which is a mere 35 000 XP (or 70 000 XP, I suppose, if you are using a multiclass F/D). With decent party balance, you can keep 'em off you at the start with other spells until you hit this level.

Druid is the FASTEST class to achieve lvl 7, even beating out rogues! (35 K compared to 40 K)