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Old 03-15-2001, 10:52 AM   #1
250
Horus - Egyptian Sky God
 

Join Date: March 4, 2001
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I just did a brief reserch, and the result was not very satisfactory, however, I feel like some of us should know it nonetheless.

I had always questioned the history and start of wizards, the magic practioners. How have those figures came to life in cultures all over the world? I had guess of my own, yet, when I was reading up texts on internet (which is not a good resouce to look for information) I tried to be objective as much as I could.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything about wizards. I did find things regard witches, who were DEEMED to exercise supernatual power. They were assumed to be devil servents and worshipers (http://www.vampyra.com/children/witches.htm) Witch came from english word wicca or wicce, they generally indicate people who believed an ancient god of earth and natual. however, they also meant wise woman, wise old wife and such.

some scholars believed witchs were the survivers of ancient folk relegion. It had been existing for a very long time. When Christian churches began to gain their pwoer, they started to pesecute people who practiced other religions, and those witchs were regarded as servents to devils.

I also looked into myth encycolpedia, I typed in the key word wizard, and it gave me some of the related words to wizard. here are couple of them:

Wicahmunga: A wizard or a male evil doer.

Koszcey: In Russian folklore Koszcey is a cruel wizard, a loathsome old man who dwells in his castle on the edge of the world. Koszcey in truth is not immortal, he can be killed, but to do so one should find Koszcey's death and that is quite difficult.

Incubus: In medieval European folklore, the incubus is a male demon (or evil spirit) who visits women in their sleep to lie with them in ghostly sexual intercourse. The woman who falls victim to an incubus will not awaken, although may experience it in a dream. Should she get pregnant the child will grow inside her as any normal child, except that it will possess supernatural capabilities. Usually the child grows into a person of evil intent or a powerful wizard. Legend has it that the magician Merlin was the result of the union of an incubus and a nun. A succubus is the female variety, and she concentrates herself on men. According to one legend, the incubus and the succubus were fallen angels.

Koshchei: A symbol of death and magic in Russian mythology, Koshchei the Deathless (also Kashchej) is a powerful wizard or demigod who gains immortality by keeping his fiery soul hidden inside an egg. The egg is inside a duck, which is inside a hare, which is inside an iron chest, which is buried under a green oak tree, which is located on the island of Bujan on the wide ocean.

An interesting note is, wherever wizard is mentioned, he is always related to death, evil, demon, which showed common people's fear, and to certain degree, respect, towards myths and unknow things. After reading many many articles, I admit I became confused, and I couldn't make out where this research is leading to. However, I did understand that, wizard, this mythterous figure, resembles sense of control, knowledge and wisdom. It is also a metaphor symbolizes humans outwit devils, outwit death. It was the fear and the confusion to those unknown phenomenas, such as death, disastour, illness, etc, led all the cultures at the same time, to create someone who could understand, or someone who comon people believed would understand. This in turn, brought them a sense of security.

One thing to point out though, the western wizards and eastern "wizards" had different methods of achieving their goals. I would call eastern wizards a cleric of some sort or a sorcerer, by AD&D standard. The eastern "mythtical figures" resembled more to socerers and clerics than wizards.

sigh... sorry about bunches of nonesense well, I am really tired and confused, and my great commanding of english is not helping, please forgive my poor writing. If it is worths a laugh, then do so.
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Old 03-15-2001, 11:39 AM   #2
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Horus - Egyptian Sky God
 

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FABULOUS BUMP!
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Old 03-15-2001, 12:02 PM   #3
Lifetime
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On the contrary, your take on this is pretty interesting. It still proves a commonly believed point that wizards, real wizards with fireballs and lightning bolts have never existed in any culture. As you said, Wizards were linked to mystery and the unexplained. Most stories in which men were said to wield magical powers are probably just different takes on a purely scientific discovery made by a commoner or an uneducated person, who were the most likely people in the period (say 13th to 15th century) to pass on a story by word of mouth.
Magic has always been used as an explaination to something that cannot be readily understood or explained by a common man. Are people like David Copperfield true magicians? No. Everyone knows that. They do not claim to be magicians or wizards. They are Illusionists(not the AD&D kind), they use trickery and guile to produce an effect that cannot be logically explained by the average human being watching it being performed, and call it magic.
Can we explain the human in two pieces trick? The one where a saw goes through a man and he comes out unscathed? No. Do we really believe that the saw went through the man? No. But can we firmly, without a trace of reasonable doubt say that it did not? No.
Same for a soldier on an ancient battlefield(many were superstitious by the way, and that would have helped tales and stories of feats on the battlefield evolve into tales of magic and the unexplained). Say a Japanese Samurai, who often served as guards for Shogunn or warlords. To them, and to many soldiers, Ninja were said to have supernatural powers. Were they really able to walk on water or disappear into thin air? No. Say to a Chinese Soldier on a battlefield, where the enemy uses inciendiary devices (they did exist, Greek Fire was believed to have been an early version of Napalm, but till today nobody knows the true composition of it, and it would have been a legendary weapon with links in magic in it's own era). Say if that same Soldier saw planes and nuclear bombs and machine guns. Would he have any explaination for them BUT magical fireballs and invisible arrows?

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Old 03-15-2001, 12:22 PM   #4
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Horus - Egyptian Sky God
 

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well said.

heh heh heh, I do believe some people with supernatual powers. serious, there are stil a lot unknown to us, and those are what superpowers are.

like the thing "ki", it is so real that you have to believe it. but has any scientist successfully explained what "ki" is? what property does it have? no one. then another question comes to mind, if this "ki" thing is real, who developed it? or, who brought it to acient china? since people weren't evolved as much as today, they couldn't possibly invent a method. (like BGII, how the hell does a monk gain quivering palm after he woke up??)

Some myths are more like tales, while some are real. that is what I always believed.

btw, thx for taking time reading. heh
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Old 03-15-2001, 01:23 PM   #5
Domer40
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250 Have you read Joesph Campbell's "The Power of Myth"? You would probably find it most interesting. It is available on VHS as well.

Joesph Campbell was John Lucas's Myth advisor for Star Wars. He basically talks about were Myth (all types) comes from and how it is created. He goes further to expalin the power Myth has on people and how much we rely on it in everyday lives. Very interesting. Been awhile since I saw the video though.

Domer
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Old 03-15-2001, 01:27 PM   #6
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Horus - Egyptian Sky God
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Domer40:
250 Have you read Joesph Campbell's "The Power of Myth"? You would probably find it most interesting. It is available on VHS as well.

Joesph Campbell was John Lucas's Myth advisor for Star Wars. He basically talks about were Myth (all types) comes from and how it is created. He goes further to expalin the power Myth has on people and how much we rely on it in everyday lives. Very interesting. Been awhile since I saw the video though.

Domer
interesting, thanks a lot. maybe i will look at star wars from a higher perspective from now on hah

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Old 03-15-2001, 01:36 PM   #7
Fljotsdale
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Um. I'm pretty interested in Mythology myself. I think if you read up on the Norse God, Odin, you will find he is a pretty close approximation to the idea of a Wizard. Not a particularly nice wizard, but not all that evil either....

However: I think our current AD&D type wizards are our own MODERN mythology, and as such we should just enjoy 'em!
F.
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Old 03-15-2001, 01:39 PM   #8
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Horus - Egyptian Sky God
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Fljotsdale:
Um. I'm pretty interested in Mythology myself. I think if you read up on the Norse God, Odin, you will find he is a pretty close approximation to the idea of a Wizard. Not a particularly nice wizard, but not all that evil either....

However: I think our current AD&D type wizards are our own MODERN mythology, and as such we should just enjoy 'em!
F.

of course, they are good wizard as well, which symbolizes good triumph evil,
about Odin, he is a wizard??? i thought Odin is god
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Old 03-15-2001, 09:45 PM   #9
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bump
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Old 03-15-2001, 09:59 PM   #10
Raistlin
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It is said that those highly trained in the martial arts can harness the chi
to a great extent. It has been said that it can become very centralized and focused outward at aonther individual. The grand masters are believed to be able to cause a "death touch". The concentration of the chi energy actually disrupts the flow of electrical impulses near the heart in this case. This would indeed seem like some of the death spells in the BGII game.

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