Going down like ninepins - who's next?

[Megabot]

Back to topic "who`s next? Yeah maby Microsoft, exxon, texaco, sun, ibm, gm, general electrick and so on i think NONE of those companyes have all things stright by the books!

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Megabot: Back to topic "who`s next? Yeah maby Microsoft, exxon, texaco, sun, ibm, gm, general electrick and so on i think NONE of those companyes have all things stright by the books!

I heard on the news an estimate that up to 50% of companies are cooking their books.

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: quote: Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: Things like suply and demand , and not chargeing more than the market will bear.

But those Do *not* work, Indeed those are what the current american economy are supposedly based upon.
All so-called free markets operate in uneven fields of power that have an impact on transactions between buyer and seller.

[/QUOTE]Suppy and demand DOES work, no one is forced to buy ANYTHING. What is uneven about the field? the buyer has money the seller has goods, the buyer wants goods the seller wants money. Uneven fields of power? where? Example Ford, one of the largest corparations in the world, with MASSIVE amounts of power and influence, but with all that power they CAN NOT make me buy anything, I wouldn't have a Ford. It's my life, by the sweat of MY brow I made my money, I choose what wish to spend it on.

[Megabot]

Yeah this is NOT good John D Harris and all you others in this world they think they "Own" this world but they dont so i hope they all get to prison for what they do those assholes overpaid idiots!

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: You should start looking to move into new lands after all the locals die off. Mother nature can be a real b!tch sometimes. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are you saying it's okay for the strong to take what they like, and the weak must thenceforth bow to them, simply because in certain aspects they are weaker? quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: I dont promote inequality , just personal responsibility. It is no ones fault but my own if my life sucks. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you were a Jew, and the Nazis came along and put you in a concentration camp (which would indeed make your life "suck"), It is your fault for being a Jew?

The answer to both questions is YES , Dram. THe weak will always bow to the strong because it is all they can do. If someone or something is too weak to defend itself then it must naturaly fall prey to the stronger. You dont see the deer eating the tiger in nature, do you? The world is the same way the stronger countries will ALWAYS victimise the weaker ones. Look at the British empire, the Roman empire, even the Nazi empire. This pattern has repeated itself countless times and will probably continue till the end of times.

As far as being a jew in Nazi Germany , if I was there it would be my fault for not riseing up against my oppressors. It would be my fault for staying and not leaving the countrie if I thought fighting was hopeless. It would be my fault for not being more politicaly active once I knew how Hitlet thought. I am not a victim and I refuse to think like one.

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Megabot: Yeah this is NOT good John D Harris and all you others in this world they think they "Own" this world but they dont so i hope they all get to prison for what they do those assholes overpaid idiots!

I'm not so worried about the overpaid idiots, its the Idiots that hired them and paid them that I'm worried about

I run a busines, a small business by 3 rules 1: Take care of my customers, it's their money buying my product. 2: Take care of my employees, it's their labor that makes my product. 3: If I do #1 & #2 I'll be taken care of.

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: You should start looking to move into new lands after all the locals die off. Mother nature can be a real b!tch sometimes. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are you saying it's okay for the strong to take what they like, and the weak must thenceforth bow to them, simply because in certain aspects they are weaker? quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: I dont promote inequality , just personal responsibility. It is no ones fault but my own if my life sucks. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you were a Jew, and the Nazis came along and put you in a concentration camp (which would indeed make your life "suck"), It is your fault for being a Jew?

The answer to both questions is YES , Dram. THe weak will always bow to the strong because it is all they can do. If someone or something is too weak to defend itself then it must naturaly fall prey to the stronger. You dont see the deer eating the tiger in nature, do you? The world is the same way the stronger countries will ALWAYS victimise the weaker ones. Look at the British empire, the Roman empire, even the Nazi empire. This pattern has repeated itself countless times and will probably continue till the end of times.

As far as being a jew in Nazi Germany , if I was there it would be my fault for not riseing up against my oppressors. It would be my fault for staying and not leaving the countrie if I thought fighting was hopeless. It would be my fault for not being more politicaly active once I knew how Hitlet thought. I am not a victim and I refuse to think like one.[/QUOTE]So, taking your rather simplistic set of arguments, if indeed they can be called that, a step futher, it is the fault of a rape victim that she is raped. She should have bought armour, as she is a woman and therefore weaker physically than most males that might want to attack her. It's the fault of a child that he was abused. He should have left home when his dad started getting nasty. It's the fault of the world trade centre victims that they were killed, they should have been smart enough to see it coming. And so on and so forth.

I find it bizarre - this idea that whatever happens to a person is that person's 'fault' and they should therefore suffer for it, with no help to be given. Survival of the fittest may very well work in nature. The fact of the matter is, we do not live in a natural environment. Humans stopped living like animals a long time ago. To my mind, civilisation is about ensuring a better quality of life, for ALL the human family.

What's wrong with the richer nations helping poorer nations get access to regular food and clean water, to medical attention, to education? What's the problem with that? Personally, I find the sight of another human being dying for want of something so basic as water or food an obscene sight in a planet that is so full of abundance, and where a minority of the population have the kind of access to food that allows some of them to weigh double or triple the 'normal' weight for a human being.

(Just out of interest, what do you think the purpose of life is? To get ahead? If so, with what purpose in mind? To achieve what? I'd be really interested to get your answer on this one.)

Regarding your point about being a Jew in Germany - it would be your fault for not rising up against your oppressors?

That statement comes from someone who has obviously never spent time living in a persecutory regime. Rising up against one's oppressors generally results in the riser upper getting their rocks shot off.

Leaving the country... hm. It's an option open to the better off, certainly, and many Jews did leave. Many others were unable to. There is also the fact that the situation developed slowly. It's not as though the Jews were aware that they were going to be transported to camps, or what would happen to them there. Do you think the Nazis made a point of broadcasting what they were doing? The full horror of the concentration camps didn't come out til quite late on.

As for being politically active - errrr right. I think you are confusing pre war Germany with an America where you are free to do pretty much as you like, within certain limits. Fascist states don't tend to be very keen on polical activists. Imprisonment, torture, death happen to them as opens there gobs too wide.

'Its no one's fault but my own if my life sucks'. Well, yes and no. When you're a kid, it's a lot to do with what your parents are like, and the general environment you're raised in. If your parents beat you up regularly, then I'd say its their fault if your life sucks, rather than yours. At a certain point, people grow up and can start to become more powerful, more in control of how their lives are. They can start to create their own lives.

But people who've had a very bad start are usually at a disadvantage, often because they aren't very good at functioning in the world, because they haven't been taught how to do it well. This includes financially, emotionally and so on. People who've had good parenting have better chances, generally speaking. People who've had crap parenting sometimes never really get over it, and we see the consequences all around us.

[ 07-01-2002, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Silver Cheetah ]

[Talthyr Malkaviel]

Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: Useing the world cup as an example , it would be like starting the better teams off with a handicap just because they have superior athletes and training. People and countries who can do it the best should be allowed to , the oneswho cant should find some other means to support themselves.

I think I now see part of the reason for your arguments now.. why are you comparing it to the world cup?
That's the whole point, the world cup is a competiton, life is not, there is enough in the world to amply supply everyone's needs, but does it? No it doesn't, and why, because you fell it's their own fault their crops won't yield? It's their own fault that the food they do make ends up making them a pittance?
Why are you comparing it to a competition, when it is completely different?

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Talthyr Malkaviel: quote: Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: Useing the world cup as an example , it would be like starting the better teams off with a handicap just because they have superior athletes and training. People and countries who can do it the best should be allowed to , the oneswho cant should find some other means to support themselves.

I think I now see part of the reason for your arguments now.. why are you comparing it to the world cup?
That's the whole point, the world cup is a competiton, life is not, there is enough in the world to amply supply everyone's needs, but does it? No it doesn't, and why, because you fell it's their own fault their crops won't yield? It's their own fault that the food they do make ends up making them a pittance?
Why are you comparing it to a competition, when it is completely different?[/QUOTE]Talthyr, I love you! A small post, but perfectly formed. Yay!

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: So, taking your rather simplistic set of arguments, if indeed they can be called that, a step futher.....

Cheetah, that's a rather insulting statement there. Hardly condusive to constructive discussion don't you think?. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I'm enjoying reading this, so pleeeeeese keep the claws in, so I can keep reading this [img]smile.gif[/img]